Helm's Deep NDA lifted

[Spego]

FYI,

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?529680-Helm-s-Deep-NDA-Dropped-as-of-Today-November-4-2013&p=6984174#post6984174

Detailed class changes guides are available at that link as well[/url]

[Aldekim]

I'm not a happy camper. Looking at this suggests I will need to pretty much relearn everything. Starting at level 85, this will be a real chore. Maybe it's time to start a new level 1 and learn as I move up.

[Spego]

Aldekim wrote:

I'm not a happy camper. Looking at this suggests I will need to pretty much relearn everything. Starting at level 85, this will be a real chore. Maybe it's time to start a new level 1 and learn as I move up.

Having been in the beta, it's hard to argue with this. There was a steep learning curve for me with regards to the trait tree itself. Once I had the trait tree system kind of figured out, then I had to see how my characters played. At one level, there is a difference and at some areas a major difference between the way things are now. The longer you've played the game or a specific class, the harder the change will most likely be as it will be a re-learning process. It's not necessarily all bad though as there were betatesters who did like the changes or were "ok" with the changes.

I personally am not thrilled with the changes as I am mostly a stick in the mud, I don't like much change =) The changes are here to stay though, so I will have to adapt to continue progress in Middle Earth. Count on Turbine adjusting/tweeking/nerfing/buffing skills for several months though.

I saw this quote in the forums which I think sums things up without all the forum rage...

"Class Changes: Big and sweeping, and undoubtedly controversial. The most important thing with these is to give them a chance. They are very different to what we have on live, but the core elements of classes remain intact. Skills may be gated or found on the trees, while others are merged or accessed via procs, etc. After the initial shock wears off, you may find you really like the changes"

[Aedon Durreah]

I was also in beta and am very unhappy about the changes to my cappy. Although the changes to skills and combining of other skills does free up space on the skill bars.

As a player in the moors things will be pretty bad for the creeps. Freep healing and damage will so overwhelm creep dps and healing that I foresee another exodus of ranked PVP players.

[`Tinki`]

As a hunter in pve, i am ok with all this sweeping change stuff. I can adjust, and I find being able to pew pew on the move interesting. Maybe after a few months even hybrid builds will be viable.

[featherfur]

Tinki, did you play a hunter in beta? (Or did anyone else?) The thing that concerns me most, on a read-through, is the loss of Agile Rejoinder for my hunter. When she was duoing with my partner's captain, NBD, but lately I've been soloing, and I *need* that self-heal.

Is there any other way of self-healing on the New Hunter, besides a (one use per fight) potion?

[Estelali]

I was on Beta only 1 day..didn't like what I saw..but after raeding forums and dev diaries, I am kinda exicited to experience all the chnges.,its time some stuff changed..because playing some classes had become way too easier., for example champion and warden..i am practically importation a warden..and champion is only wild attack + swift strike = relentless

[Lhinnthel]

I was in beta and played with Lhinnthel (85 hunter) I have to say I have very mixed feelings about all of these changes... I really hated it at first and while I still am not happy, I will just have to adjust as the changes are here to stay. I am upset about some of the skills that are gated and I don't more to go outside of the main line that ou choose, it makes it hard to get anything out of the second line. They did give barbed arrow and bard's arrow back but I still want my rain of thorns! I didn't play in the last 2 beta events because I missed them so I'm not sure what other changes they've made since then. I do know that it definitely did feel different but since I'm a pve, mostly solo player -- I will just deal with it. I'm hoping that I'll be better able to adjust to the changes on my low level characters.

[Vendek]

I was in Beta also. Have not played real long on LOTRO, and have not played all the classes yet, so don't think the ones I have not played will effect me that much. My Hunter started out BAD, got better by the last beta (still not good, but better). My Guardian about the same, still not anywhere as good as now. But my poor Warden, all I can do is shake my head.

[`Tinki`]

I played some, yes. Not much in there for healing Im afraid. Hunters are going to demand more and we are gonna get something I bet, but I dont know yet what. If it so happens we dont get healing skills, We are gonna need much faster potion cooldowns and maybe more types of morale potions to keep us alive.

Cant remember all the new skills, but my impression pve solo is that at 85 with points spent, I hit a little harder, with some inductions speeded up. There are some junk skills that bottleneck you as you go down the trees. I do think that as we level to 105-115-125 we will be able to go really deep into 2 to 3 trees though.

[Andeon]

interesting - I haven't played any of the beta, and I'm only going off what little I've read, but I think I understand the general sentiments...

the people that are *really* unhappy, seem to be unhappy primarily because key skills that they had come to rely on are changing or disappearing, and roles that they spent a great deal of time getting familiar with are now becoming more exclusive (less multi-role-esque) and in some ways less powerful/specialized

and while I can understand this sentiment, I've never been overly married to any particular skill or role in my *own* class that I can't live if it goes away/changes - but that may be a perspective unique to the Captain, as it was always a very multi-role class that never really excelled too much at most roles (although we could be pretty beefy healers under the right conditions)

so far, everything I've heard about the Captain changes leave me reasonably hopeful. Yes, some of my skills/abilities are less *clearly* useful, but I'm not convinced that anything is *useless*, and quite a few of my ACTUALLY currently useless or inefficient abilities have been replaced with things that *sound* intriguingly useful

there's no doubt in my mind that the transition will be...interesting, but I don't think it has to be painful. In fact, I'm kind of enjoying the idea of a few weeks of I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M DOING ANYMORE YEEEHAAAAAHHH!!! playstyle - it's almost like I get to experiment with a whole new game experience, and I'm *reasonably* confident that I'll find *some* way to make myself useful.

I really do hope that those of you currently worried, discover the changes to be more an opportunity than an obstacle, and I encourage everyone to approach the changes with a sense of enthusiasm for new opportunity, rather than dread for all the things you're losing - there will be loss, of course, and there will be new things that fail to be as fun or as endearing as the things you're losing, but I truly do believe that the mindset with which you approach the changes will affect how you adapt to them, and I honestly believe that a positive mindset will bring you far more peace overall then an adversarial mindset. I know that's how I'm looking at it currently, and I think it's a good idea for just about everyone.

but in the end, we'll all have to decide for ourselves when it actually happens - until then, I look forward to a whole new experience adventuring with my fellow banders (which, sadly, I've missed for the last 2 weeks in a row thanks to unexpected outings with friends - ps, don't bother seeing "Ender's Game" the movie - just read the book.)

[Anarwald]

Hey all -- I've been forum-lurking every now and then since I stopped playing LotRO regularly, and I just happened to come across this thread. Reading the new burglar class guide, here are my thoughts:

The burglar seems to have gone from a jack-of-all-trades to a one-hit wonder. I used to run primarily in Quiet Knife stance, but I also enjoyed slotting certain yellow traits that would increase the effectiveness of Tricks. In the new system, those traits are gated behind several tiers of the Mischief-Maker trait line, which means that a QK burglar will rely primarily on burst damage to kill anything. Even with the bonuses to burst damage, QK burglars will lose two valuable tools to increase DPS: Reveal Weakness (the improved version) and Counter Defense. The soon-to-be T7 Mischief-Maker skill ("Trickster") is currently a yellow-line trait that is pretty much indispensable in the 'Moors for burglars in any stance -- not having that tool any more will take some getting used to. Not having a reliable power-restore through Mischievous Delight unless you're fully MM-specced is also going to be tough for a while.

That said... I feel like the "core" of the burglar has been preserved. I like how the Addle cooldown has been lowered back to 10 seconds, since burglars used to be the #1 class for interrupts in raids before the cooldown got increased. The crit chain has stayed mostly intact, and if they've shortened some of the animations, it should be a whole lot easier to rotate through. The most important LI legacies are still available, or have been changed to something more relevant. I also like how Stun Dust has been changed from a consumable item to a QK skill -- especially since our other reliable stun (Startling Twist) is now a Tier 2 skill in the MM line. In all honesty, I think some of the QK line changes are rather overpowered. Feint-Attack cooldown reduced to 5 seconds from 5 minutes... wow! HiPS used to be a hit-or-miss skill in the 'Moors, because if you had a DoT ticking away, you'd be spotted again in 10 seconds -- now I can see it being abused endlessly for quick getaways. And Coup de Grace is... well, simply outrageous.

My overall feeling is that, if and when I manage to play again, I'll be thoroughly confused for a couple of weeks -- but after everything is sorted out, I could probably still find a good rhythm in a fight. Keep in mind, though, that I haven't played the beta... so I could be completely wrong about some things.

As for captains... may Eru have pity on your souls for whatever sins you committed in your past lives. Good grief.

[Cennwyn]

I like how, in all the three major classes I enjoy, the skills that they're removing are the ones I use ALL THE TIME.

I really don't understand how they decided THOSE were the skills that had to go? Every minstrel I know uses those anthems--I thought they were going to remove useLESS skills, not useFUL skills. Geez.

On the bright side, the core functionality of a lot of classes seems to be the same.

[Dellphinia]

Just reading through these Player Guides and all I have to say is, didn't anyone proofread these things? They spelling and grammar are horrible! Okay, got that out of my system. Back to the guides...

[Kiralynn]

I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say, because I don't know where the Helm's Deep NDA ends and the Player's Council NDA begins. However, I will say that I played the "new" hunter through several revisions. Depending on how you spec, your character will fit a wide variety of play styles. It won't take long to learn the new skills. The trick will be in figuring out how to build your hunter to match the way you like to play. If you're patient, I believe you can come up with a build that you'll enjoy playing.

Beyond Helm's Deep, there are some really cool things on the horizon. I'm excited about the future of LOTRO.