WAR Racing - 2013-2014 Season Planning

[Byrcha]

Yeah, using timings and then having deductions for fouls is how it is done in the real-world. I just don't know if we can be precise enough to do that in LOTRO without driving ourselves extra-crazy. /servertime could help, but only if individuals race in heats (e.g. Olympic downhill skiing) on a well-marked course (e.g. Festival race tracks). But that is a different race from the thundering-herd type race; again, perhaps we could do some of each and try it out.

Two races a month, along with SRC planning, is a lot. I can hopefully help run some of the races, though I blanch at thinking I can pull off one of the qualifier/standings races. Maybe only one race per month should "count" for the standings regardless?

[Harperella]

Well, last year we had feedback that the SRC stretched over too long a time, this year its too short. I suppose we'll always err one way or the other. The day of SRC was very long--especially since we added the horse-fields and formation riding in. Next time perhaps we schedule no more than two "events" per day and spread the whole thing over 1 month.

I like all the suggestions here, especially the inclusion of "extreme" tracks that go over very difficult terrain. A Thror's Coomb Mountain Classic could be fun going up and down the steep mountain pass and dodging gwibbers. An Eregion Extreme could also be neat, including a trip up Caradhras and perhaps up to one or more of the "hidden" towers that can only be gotten to with some very careful finagling of horses.

I think war steed races have a lot of potential as well, and as Andeon points out, those really need to be simpler due to the crazy rubber banding and collision detection with obstacles.

Once again, thanks for taking up the banner of horse racing--a really amazing form of emergent game play in LOTRO!

--Harper

[Kiralynn]

Harperella wrote:

Once again, thanks for taking up the banner of horse racing--a really amazing form of emergent game play in LOTRO!

*chuckles* This was my third SRC and the 4th on the server. At what point do we graduate from "emergent" to "established"? =D

[Andeon]

Kiralynn of Rohan wrote:

Harperella wrote: Once again, thanks for taking up the banner of horse racing--a really amazing form of emergent game play in LOTRO! *chuckles* This was my third SRC and the 4th on the server. At what point do we graduate from "emergent" to "established"? =D

just a note Kira? I'm confused...The first SRC that *I* was aware of was the one Duvelon planned, and I believe you took first place in that race (I helped with the horse parade, and some other stuff) - then, there was the 2nd SRC, I raced and took 2nd, and then there was this SRC, I raced and got lag spiked...am I missing an SRC?

[Kiralynn]

Andeon wrote:

just a note Kira? I'm confused...The first SRC that *I* was aware of was the one Duvelon planned, and I believe you took first place in that race (I helped with the horse parade, and some other stuff) - then, there was the 2nd SRC, I raced and took 2nd, and then there was this SRC, I raced and got lag spiked... am I missing an SRC?

I'm not sure it was called the SRC back then, but it's my understanding that there was a horse race event the year before the one that I won. I got this impression from Duvelon when I asked about the video advertising the SRC of two years back. I had wondered where the footage was from.

Here's the 2011 video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt9kdPuQ6oM

Here's our old 2012 ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lhczq9ylGo

Here's the new 2013 ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YGkHsrnGlk

So now you can sort of see how things progressed!

[Kiralynn]

Okay, let's take another swing at this:

Of the 10 official races, we could split them into:
* 2 war-steed steeplechases
* 1 very long cross-country for +68% (IE: Forsaken Inn to Rivendell)
* 1 sprint for +68%
* 1 two-person relay for +62% (teams of 3 seemed too hard to organize)
* 1 course with laps for +62%
* 1 obstacle course for +62% (timed, one rider at a time - boards, water jumps, etc.)
* 1 steeplechase for +62% (many cliffs and jumps)
* Chetwood Cup qualifier race at Hengstacer farms (+62% derby)
* Mathom Cup qualifier race in Michel Delving (+62% derby)

In the same month as the SRC...
* Mithril Cup qualifier race in Gondamon (+62% derby)
* Moonstone Cup qualifier race in Duillond (+62% derby)

Finally the Bree Cup championship race. (4 qualifiers + top 6 from the standings)
(This gives us one qualifier race each for Men, Hobbits, Elves and Dwarves. Very fitting.)

Plus...
* Fun run and fireworks show near 4th of July
* Group ride with mystery RP party for Halloween in October
* Fun run with holiday party for Christmas/Chanukkah in December
* Group ride with mystery RP party for Mardi Gras in February


Now, I know the regular racers are really happy with as many races as I care to cram in. I'd love to hear from the volunteers (especially race judges) to find out if this is asking too much.

[Andeon]

I like the format you're talking about for obstacle courses - I hadn't considered that sort of set up, but it seems like an excellent idea, and a great way to get around the limitations of judge requirements for a heavy obstacle course

I still have a couple of concerns about adding Warsteeds to the regular race cycle, if you're going to include those races in the standings AND have standings part of the requisite for entering the Bree Cup. Simple fact, Warsteeds are not accessible to all of your riders, and because of the leveling system, not all warsteeds will enter with equal capabilities, AND because warsteeds have demonstrated some significant...variances...as far as their lag/collision issues.

I will admit that Warsteeds overall versatility allows for a much greater degree of rider skill, but also rewards level grinding and punishes more severely and unpredictably for coding errors - I think warsteeds should be very carefully and slowly included into the racing circuit - but in the end, as always, the choice is yours, and if you want to accelerate the introduction of warsteeds into the racing circuit, I'll leave it up to you

beyond that, overall, I think you've got yourself a pretty good schedule. It seems to work well, and covers a lot of different options and preferences. I'll be curious to see how the standings/qualifier races turns out, but it *sounds* like it could turn out quite well. I hope it does.

[Kiralynn]

Andeon wrote:

I still have a couple of concerns about adding Warsteeds to the regular race cycle, if you're going to include those races in the standings AND have standings part of the requisite for entering the Bree Cup. Simple fact, Warsteeds are not accessible to all of your riders, and because of the leveling system, not all warsteeds will enter with equal capabilities, AND because warsteeds have demonstrated some significant...variances...as far as their lag/collision issues.

You bring up some good points. Here is what I was thinking when I included them:

* There have been a lot of requests for war steeds.
* The war steed race at the ruins by the Forsaken Inn went well and was very popular.
* There seems to be very little rubber-banding of war steeds in the older zones. It is even more minimized on the right track.
* The entire season now contains a large number of "specialty" races. I feel that this season's WAR standings won't be proving who is the best classic jockey, but who is the best all-around horseman.
* I only have time to run a certain number of races. If I don't throw in a couple of regular season war steed races, then the two fun runs will both be war steed races, or there won't be any at all.


If enough people ask to remove war steeds from the official race schedule, I'll relegate war steeds to the fun runs, but there won't be any +62% or +68% fun runs.

[Aldekim]

Because you need to be high level to get a war steed I fear that the final season standings could be slanted in favor of war steed riders should some low level riders end the season near or at the top. For that reason I agree, the War Steed Races, which are clearly worth holding, should not be part of the season standings. Other than that your proposed schedule is outstanding.

[Sonca]

The schedule (quantity) seems ok to me as a lowly helper and I will try to make it when possible. The amount of races does not seem to be overly taxing on our time here. The only concern I have would be the time and day of the week these would be held.

As far as trying to create a level playing field in regards to the war steeds skewing the season totals towards the higher level racers, would you be willing to have the war steed races paired up with races for normal mounts? Racers will have choice to enter the war steed race or the normal mount race but not both. This will allow the lower level riders the same chance as the higher ones to have a full season of racing. But it would add to your work load and to a lessor extent the time of your volunteers.

Yes, there would still be the discrepancies between the new and unleveled mount vs the one with maxed out speed and agility, but that should all be considered part of the cost of competition. In the real world the best racers have to put a lot of effort into getting ready for a race. They cannot just pickup any available mount from the stable and expect to do well. If someone wants to race in the war steed class, then they should be willing to put in the work to level the steed of their choice and make sure that they have the stats that they need.

[Andeon]

actually, I kinda like Sonca's idea - Have WAR races that *do* count for standings be paired with a standard horse race - you can enter either one or the other, and only the one you enter (of course) will be counted for your standing in the season.

That way, people that don't *have* warsteeds, or don't think they can reasonably compete because their warsteeds are under level compared to many others, can choose to compete on the standard race-horse track, while those eager to try out their skills on warsteeds can compete in there.

It will to a degree split the player/rider base between two races, which means you may end up with fewer competitors (at least in the warsteed races), but it does seem like the most...egalitarian...way to address some of the inherent imbalance issues with warsteeds

[Caiyyd]

They could even use the same course as the regular horses. I have practice run many of the routes on my warsteed when scouting the areas. I won't say they are easy... but it can be done!

[Kiralynn]

I'm not sure I'll have the time to host back-to-back races, plus sometimes a mounted fashion contest, on race days. I would also be concerned that the standings would still be skewed only, this time because two riders (one war-steed, one standard) would be earning points for a first place finish. Perhaps we can come up with a solution that doesn't involve doubling the workload. *grins*

[Caiyyd]

Could try running them at the same time? Warsteeds would probably finish well ahead of the regulars.

[Aalloria Borealis]

First, I think that any races with War Steeds should not count for the overall standing, it should have a seperate standing....because it automatically takes out anyone competing who doesn't have a war steed.
While I did place one race against warsteeds, they were so much faster, that had it not been a difficult course, I would have stood no chance at all - and for those faithful at all the races to basically loose out on points because they are faithful to their trusty Black Bay pony....just think two brackets maybe.

I like 2-3 a month. One on a weekday, one on a weekend, and maybe try one after BBB so the Europeans can get a shot at a race instead of doing it at 4am their time, or something.

I like the idea of fun runs, different courses, longer races. I also though, how about a CLUE race....we make clues in a zone as to where the "judges" are...like, where you once found a pointy rock, by the bear cave, follow the sound of wolves - or something more clever than that, and not only is it a race course, but also a race pluse hide and seek/clue to find the actual judges, once you get all 4/5/6 or whatever, you speed to the end....and each judge gives the next clue.

I also think you should give placement points for those who volunteer - an incentive for those who want to race, but want to see that the race has the people needed more - that way they aren't completely missing out, andyou might find it easier to get volunteers.

I also thought, maybe a point on the standings for showing up on time to riding practice, and showing up for riding shows - then your most faithful players, who support the races, the show, etc...rack up points, and at the end of the season might just have enough to compete with others.

Just ideas from a Pirate who hopes you all look down the race track as I sneak off with the winning purse.

Aalloria Borealis (nothing boring about this light lass!!)
Pirate Princess
Spring Carnival Racing Jockey for Barabossa the Black.