Quenta Silmarillion

[Andeon]

so, i've been eagerly awaiting Lennidhren's update on our study of the Silmarillion - where'd it go? where'd she go? not sure...

I may have missed something, and perhaps our study of the Silmarillion got pushed back, but I've read the preface, Tolkien's letter, and the Ainulindale, and I'm eager to get started!

So, in the absence of Lennidhren's usual posts on topics, I thought I'd put forward some of the things that struck me as intriguing during my own reading - of course, these notions take a back seat to our "official" topics list, whenever that shows up, but as I'm sorta raring to get going right now, I'll start us off

Tolkien's letter to Milton Waldman - Don't know if we're actually going to spend time on this in the reading, but I'd *highly* recommend it, as in it, Tolkien not only gives a relatively interesting summary of the general highlights of the Silmarillion (as it existed at the time), but also goes over many of his reasons as to WHY he wrote it, and WHY he included certain things the way he did...

a few that struck me particularly are...


1 - Tolkien's claim that there were really no *English* fairy mythologies in the sense that he wanted them, and that he wanted to create a distinctly *English* fairy-myth

2 - a curious and often undeclared difference between men and elves - elves were rendered immortal, and their *curse* is to know their own fate, which makes them envious of men - Elves are meant to prepare the earth and the world for the inheritance of men

the curse of men is mortality, and not to know their own fates...

3 - the character of Elrond serves less of a narrative plot/character purpose, and is more intended as a turning point in the adventures of those around him - Elrond (and Rivendell) are apparently meant as a symbol of Lore, and of using knowledge and reflection to change one's direction

4 - xxi - ..."it was in any case on his finger..." :)
for those that manage to make it through the entirety of the lettter, I found this particular phrase to be quite matter-of-fact, and as such, enjoyably humorous - wonder if anyone else caught this moment of almost flippant seriousness...if there is such a thing

I also found some interesting points during the Ainulindale, most specifically, the fact that the song of creation that revealed *most* of past present and future to the Ainur was in fact only a vision, and that in order to make their vision come to fruition, the Ainur actually had to step down and limit themselves into the workspace to actually make it all come to pass...I enjoyed that unique point of view as well

those are the primary points that caught my attention - until lennidhren comes up with her own lesson plan, I invite everyone to discuss amongst themselves these, and whatever other thoughts come to mind

[Lennidhren]

*grin* So, it's the first week of summer break, and I've been lazy...have only just finished rereading the chapter and have been putting off the topics.

Andeon, I haven't seen the letter you refer to; my Silm. edition just has a foreword from Christopher Tolkien then jumps right into Ainulindale. So thank you for bringing this letter to our attention! Is it in your edition of Silm.? Or would it be easiest to find in "The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien"? I must find me a copy of that book...At any rate, you bring up some good points for our discussion! If the letter isn't too long, perhaps you could read it aloud during the meeting for those of us who haven't yet found a copy?

Anyway, we are indeed beginning with the Ainulindale at 4pm eastern this Sunday. This will launch our Silmarillion Projects too, so part of the discussion, I imagine, will be brainstorming what sort of projects folks have in mind for this first chapter, and the results can be presented at the following week's meeting.

And now to put my lazy summer brain to work and set a few topics:

(1) Style. The Silmarillion is such a different approach from what we readers may be used to with LOTR and The Hobbit. Why? What is the effect of the tone and technique of this chapter? Of what is it reminiscent? (We'll find as we go on that the rest of the Silmarillion even differs some from these two opening chapters, Ainulindale and Valaquenta...)

(2) As a creation account (a cosmogony!) how does Ainulindale differ from, or echo, other creation stories?

(3) Why music? The title Ainulindale means "The Music of the Ainur" - why do you think Tolkien made music the vehicle of creation?

(4) What is the Flame Imperishable?

(5) How does Melkor's rebellion fit into the creation account? What is the nature of his rebellion? Why does he do it? How does it interplay with or against Iluvatar's own plans?

(6) We are given a sense of a vast universe out of which Iluvatar chooses Arda, the Earth, for the habitation of his Children. All is focused on this one tiny corner of Creation, and the Valar who enter into it shape Arda to "minute precision" rather than venturing out into the vast reaches of space. I am not sure how to phrase a question out of this thought - it just strikes me how different Tolkien's fantasy is from, well, science fiction stories that would have life on every planet...

(7) Going along with Andeon's last comments about the Ainur having to step down into the creation, after first hearing it in the Music and then seeing it in the vision: We have a theme of Incarnation here. The Valar step into Arda and become permanently a part of it. They can take on bodies but they do not *become* the bodies. Again I don't really have a question to pose here, just pointing this out for comment!

[Andeon]

being an English major myself, and a writer, I'm rather embarrassed to admit it, but there are still terminologies of writing that escape me. traditional fantasy fiction, written like say the robert jordan conan novels and such, with action and dialogue and such delivered much like a movie, with the reader "observing" the activity, is one type of writing style, and I'm pretty sure theres a name for it.

then, theres the biblical style story recitation, which, despite having dialogue and action from time to time, is nonetheless delivered in a very different fashion, with a different perspective. I'm fairly sure theres a "term" for that sort of writing as well, and I've forgotten the word.

If len knows what I'm talking about, I'd love to have the terms for those two particular writing styles - assuming I haven't just imagined it.

**Regarding the Letter* I'm using the 2nd edition of the Silmarillion - I found 3 different versions (one with illustrations by Ted Nasmith which I was quite keen to own, but at an extra 25$, wasn't sure how much I really *needed* it), and one which didn't really make any distinction of being first or second or whatnot

the preface to the 2nd edition says the the Letter I speak of was included in "The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien (1981)" no 131 - apparently, the 2nd edition includes that letter, with some edits for...improved accuracy.

[thenerdwriter]

It turns out I won't be able to make it tonight, as I have a Confirmation Mass to go to Would anyone be willing to take notes for me?

[Lindorieh]

Be sure and listen to the first episode of the Tolkien Professor's Silmarillion Seminar, which covers the Ainulindale