LMB Book Club, The Hobbit Ch. 4: Over Hill and Under Hill

[Lennidhren]

Bilbo and the dwarves now leave the safety of Rivendell behind and venture into the dangers of the Misty Mountains. Let us follow them into their perils...

Tolkien Professor:
Check out Dr. Olsen's special lecture, "Papers from Kalamazoo 2010: The Poetry of The Hobbit and Tolkien's Typology" for a great analysis of the goblins' song in this chapter.

Silmarillion:
(1) We hear of "the goblin wars" in which the swords made in Gondolin were wielded against goblins so that those foul creatures came to abhor "Beater" and "Biter" so much that their far descendants in the Misty Mountains recognize those two swords - even though Glamdring and Orcrist must have not been seen since the First Age when Gondolin fell! For more on the "goblin wars", you'll find references frequent throughout the Silmarillion...er, the whole Quenta Silmarillion basically is the "goblin wars" of the Noldor against Morgoth. :-) I will direct you to chapters detailing two of the great battles of those wars, but I fear that if you have not read the Silmarillion in full before and are starting with these chapters, they do not stand alone as well as some of the others we have referred to...there will be many characters among the Noldor elves with whom you're not familiar, for instance. Nevertheless, you can read of the fourth great battle, the Dagor Bragollach, in ch. 18 "Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin", and of the fifth battle, the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, in chapter 20. Readers, if you have any other suggestions for key passages on the "goblin wars" in the Silmarillion, feel free to add them in this thread!

Discussion Topics:

(1) Constantly we hear that Bilbo recalls with longing the comforts and safety of his hobbit-hole, and usually such reflections end with the narrator's comment "Not for the last time!" How does this chapter continue the theme of the safe country left behind? How have we seen this theme develop throughout the chapters thus far?

(2) This week's linguistics topic is ONOMATOPOEIA! A fun device that just amounts to words that sound like what they mean. Plenty of examples in the goblin's poem - "Clap! Snap" etc. - but look at how Tolkien uses such sound-words in other parts of this chapter, and how they typify the goblins.

(3) I love the line: "Gandalf thought of most things: and though he could not do everything he could do a great deal for friends in a tight corner" - in reference to the Wizard's great presence of mind in not only rescuing the dwarves and hobbit from the goblins, but thinking to grab the Gondolin-made swords on his way out, too. Once again Gandalf saves the party from disaster! Is he a deus ex machina?

(4) Goblins. We've discussed the characterization and stereotypes Tolkien uses for dwarves, hobbits, and elves. What about goblins? How do these compare to the orcs we see in LOTR (books) or in game?


The poll is a bit vague this week. After voting, please comment in this thread with specifics on any times that do/don't work for you.

[Lindorieh]

Both Friday evening and Sunday are out for me. Anytime Saturday should work though.

Lindorieh

[CGriffin]

So, in keeping with the trend thus far, will the club be meeting in Goblintown this time?

[Harperella]

That's a great idea, Camara! Perhaps in the Gollum's cave? Assuming all players are able to make it there... I'm not sure what the level spread is.

--Harperella

[Lennidhren]

We have several low levels so this might be tricky to do. Also, we might want to wait till next chapter for Gollum's cave. :-) How about Gloin's Camp where we had Ales and Tales? It's not too treacherous a journey from Rivendell. We can meet in the Hall of Fire as last week and walk together to Gloin's Camp in recognition of the journey through the Misty Mountains...the Over Hill part of the chapter.

[Lindorieh]

Great idea!

Lindorieh

[Lennidhren]

Looks like it's Saturday morning for this week's meeting. How does 10 a.m. EST work for everyone?

[Mairghread]

Ooo, I might be able to make that... hmm... we need to finish up some Christmas shopping. Let me speak with the missus to find out what our plan is.

I don't have a captain, so I'm not sure of the details, but if we can get a level 40 captain, couldn't we have him/her summon everyone to the location?

[gaiagil]

This is a good time for me. I haven't had time to work on a song this week as I'm swamped with grading. I'll be lucky to get to the Silmarillion readings, actually. I'm only 21 and getting to Gloin's camp is not out of reach for me. I'll need a summons to Gollum's cave for certain, but very cool idea for a location.

Gaiagil

[Andeon]

captain summoning limitations - as goblin town is an instance of sorts, a captain *may* be unable to summon into golems cave (actually, golems cave is sort of an instance within an instance) i'll log on tonight and test it out with someone if you'd like, see if theres a workaround of sorts...

10 am EST though?...if it works, I'll see if i can drag myself out of bed long enough to summon people into the instance - but then i'm going right back! (I'd love to stay with you guys, but getting up at 7am in the morning on a saturday is blasphemy, as far as I'm concerned)

[Lennidhren]

Book Club members may be amused to hear that Linett, while attending a show in the Frostbluff Theatre today, spotted a person from a kinship named "Not For the Last Time". :-)

[Lindorieh]

*Like*

Lindorieh