ESO

[Nevanna]

How is the player music system?
How is the dancing?
How is the pie?


I've had invites to every ESO beta weekend for about the last month, but have not entered even once. I was addicted to Morrowind for months on end, but it's been so long ago that I don't even remember the story. I didn't really play Oblivion or Skyrim, due to the fact that by then I was into MMO's. I figure, if I can't even recall the story, it must not have had that much of an impact on me, altho I still say that I loved it. I tried Rift, GW2, DragonAge...I just cannot get into other games anymore. I blame Lotro. For this reason, I don't believe I will waste my money or my time.

[Tearna Quickfoot]

There is no player music system as we know it. You can plunk on a drum, flute, and lute but just a preset melody that doesn't change and from what I can tell (I saw several groups trying to play together) the tunes don't really go together... or perhaps the players were just not able to get in sync.

You have a couple of dances but not the variety we have in Lotro.

They have some delicious goat pie!! I'm still pretty low level so not aware of everything available. :)

They have nice emotes. Four different ways to sit (I wish we had more ways to sit... I get tired of sitting like a girl) and multiple ways to lay down, sleep and say hello.

I LOVE rolling which isn't so much an emote as a movement. Double tapping A or D will have you roll to one side or the other as a way to get out of the path of an AOE type attack. But there is a forward roll you can map (default is not mapped to anything) and as you run, hit the key you mapped it to and your character launches a forward roll, comes out and runs without skipping a beat!

They have wonderful sunrises and sunsets... and they take a good long while to happen. I've stood on a cliff overlooking the ocean just watching the sunset in the snowy starter lands of the Nords. Gorgeous!!!

Quest wise, I've had much better success in the Nord starter area (I forget what it's called now) and the following Stone-something or other. Fewer bugged quests and the ones that were bugged, were fixed by logging out and back in again. When I was in other starting areas in previous beta weekends, logging out and in again didn't work though I did it many, many times. But to be fair, the other areas may be better now as I've not gone back and played them again.

I really like ESO. I had not played Skyrim in forever so went back and played it a bit, but found it not as fun and a bit clunkier (everything is key commands and mouse is pretty much only used for steering and weapons)than I remembered. hahahhaa Not that I played WITH anyone in ESO, but I just like playing along side others who are doing the same thing. Feels more alive and vital. :) Plus, they've made it a bit more mouse friendly.

Still toying with whether I want to pre-order. The only thing in the pre-order that appeals to me would be the horse. It was nice to have this time around and I don't know if that is in the cheapest pre-order set. Guess I should look again.

:)

[Andeon]

followed through this beta weekend for awhile, and then gave up - Most of my previous comments about gameplay stand, but this weekend was insufferable as far as quests being bugged out. I ran across at least 3 separate quests in Glenumbra (high rock region - the breton homeland for those of you keeping track), and over the local zone chat, heard of at least 3 more that were unable to advance due to npc's not spawning or not advancing their own questlines

so, I sorta hit a wall as far as getting *anything* done, and gave up. I *have* to assume that they'll fix bugged questlines before release, as that seems like an obvious priority, but it has effectively killed my already fairly low interest in pre-ordering. I'll watch it during it's first month, see if post release and it's first patch or two clean up the gameplay experience

all told, the game and the world look like fun - but not so utterly compelling that I'm willing to suffer through the first month or two IF, if, they release before fixing fundamental gameplay features.

once I hear better things about more polished product, I'll probably buy the game and really pound out my free first month - if community and/or gameplay turns out to be good enough, I may stick with it - if not...I've always got LOTRO

[Kiralynn]

Perhaps it's just me but... there are far too many controls for customizing the appearance of characters. Ear size, height, angle and flair? Four controls just for my ears? Foot size, really? ;)

I do want to steal their hair styles, though!

[Andeon]

Kiralynn of Rohan wrote:

Perhaps it's just me but... there are far too many controls for customizing the appearance of characters. Ear size, height, angle and flair? Four controls just for my ears? Foot size, really? ;) I do want to steal their hair styles, though!

I *love* character customization controls - I've easily spent hours trying to make my characters look *exactly* the way I want them to...

the problem I usually have with customization controls isn't that there are too many - but more frequently, no matter how many customization controls they have, they don't go far enough in any one or the other direction to make a difference. THAT'S the part that bugs me.

"Hey - we've got 100 different controls for faces, hands, skin tones - but guess what - THEY ALL KINDA LOOK THE SAME, AND THE DIFFERENCES ARE SO MICRO-INCREMENTAL YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO TELL! HA HA!! *points finger*

for example, I tend to prefer characters with narrow facial features - but many game's customization controls only let you go to *slightly* narrower than heroic-square-jaw (for males, anyway), so they've got this wonderful custom face control, but not really, because you still *have* to fit within a relatively narrow band.

ESO was pretty good this time around, but it does suffer from something most character gen's seem to suffer from lately - product on the drawing room floor does *NOT* always match the in-game result. I frequently found the body models for female characters to appear far skinnier in-game than they appeared when I built them in the character gen screen. Maybe the char gen screen, like the camera, adds ten pounds, who knows... *shrug*

anyway, overall, I liked the ESO character builder - but yeah, a greater range of hairstyles (and the ability to adjust the hairstyle along the scalp so some people didn't end up with such GIGANTIC foreheads would be nice), and a wider range of customizations for narrower face features I would have enjoyed - but that's more of a personal pet peeve

[Bellcari]

I'm solidly in the Old Fogey category and LOTRO is the only on line game I've ever played. In fact, playing a game at all gives me a bit of a "cool factor" with the younger generation! I have the ultimate noob question: Why are so many LOTRO fans also fans of ESO? Is there lore? Is it significantly different from Middle Earth? "IF" I were ever to check out a second game, which one would you recommend given my love for all things LOTRO?

Bel

[Bittercress]

Kiralynn of Rohan wrote:

Perhaps it's just me but... there are far too many controls for customizing the appearance of characters. Ear size, height, angle and flair? Four controls just for my ears? Foot size, really? ;) I do want to steal their hair styles, though!

One thing they do seem to have right is that hair and other optional extras are per race, so I can have a tiny wood elf with antlers ... and nice hair :D

[Kiralynn]

Bellcari wrote:

I have the ultimate noob question: Why are so many LOTRO fans also fans of ESO? Is there lore? Is it significantly different from Middle Earth? "IF" I were ever to check out a second game, which one would you recommend given my love for all things LOTRO?

I think that depends on what you're looking for in a game -- PvP, raiding, PvE, exploration, roleplay, OOC social gatherings, music...

For example: I want a game where I can have social interactions with other players outside of questing.

I want to like ESO, but it is missing some key things. It doesn't have a music system or player housing. There's no way to add player-created content. I can't decorate a house for a party or murder mystery. I can't play a victory tune after killing a boss. With three factions, only one third of players would be able to socialize with me, without risking PvP combat. It also has a more "anime" style, so everything is EPIC-UBER-OMG-GLOWING-EXPLOSIONS-RAWR! I greatly prefer the low-key fantasy tone of LotR.

I want to like EverQuest Landmark, but it's too open-ended and free-form. It has the opposite problem from ESO. Because of the detail level, it would take me dozens of hours to build a hobbit home from scratch. Once I did, it wouldn't necessarily be immersive. After all, my neighbor can build a space station, assuming I'm lucky and he doesn't build the Tower of Doggy Poop, or just leave an ugly, half-finished structure. Because the library of pre-designed objects covers multiple genres, only a small selection of objects will be appropriate for the theme I've chosen. There's also no easy way for people to get to my abode.

At this time, LOTRO is the best fit for me, even if the graphics are starting to show their age.

Ask yourself, what do you enjoy doing most when you log in? What are your top three favorite activities? Which game has a system that best supports them? What is something you really hate about an MMO? Does the game in question have that problem? Hopefully this will help you narrow down a list of MMOs fairly quickly.

[Bittercress]

I'm with Kira (don't tell Serbryt!), but the things that make LotRO stand out to me are the music system, the socializing, and I'm just a normal person, not some hero who's going to save the world.

[Bellcari]

Thanks Kira and Bitter~ That helps. I looked at a trailer and, yep, way too much whizbang. I like finding rabbits and watching foxes. I think I'm in the right place. Plus...I just love middle earth and how it is becoming something bigger than just quest completion. As you mentioned, I think it is because the players add components the devs could not. They build it and we take it from there.

I was curious. This helps. Thank you.

Bel

[Kiralynn]

I highly recommend that if anyone is thinking of leaving LOTRO, wait until after the U13 updates. It would be a shame to leave, then find out something really magnificent was added... or some pet peeve bug was fixed.

[Andeon]

Bellcari wrote:

Thanks Kira and Bitter~ That helps. I looked at a trailer and, yep, way too much whizbang. I like finding rabbits and watching foxes. I think I'm in the right place. Plus...I just love middle earth and how it is becoming something bigger than just quest completion. As you mentioned, I think it is because the players add components the devs could not. They build it and we take it from there. I was curious. This helps. Thank you. Bel

and now, for the democratic response, as my friend used to say.

I wouldn't, myself, recommend ESO offhand - while there *are* some similarities to LOTRO on the storytelling front (In fact, I would argue that ESO's storytelling is at least as good as lotro, and the actual npc/character interaction is MORE lively than in LOTRO), which is a definite plus for the game.

but the actual mechanics of ESO are considerably more active, and magic itself is DEFINITELY a more common, flashier presence. I don't find it overtly obtrusive, but it does change the flavor of the world, when throwing bolts of flame is something EVERYONE can do, arguable, rather than just the Istari.

But, I highly, Highly, HIGHLY recommend the Elder Scrolls single player games. If one of the appeals of LOTRO is an immersive, living breathing world, than there really is no better example of that, than the single player Elder Scrolls games. One of the things I LOVE about Elder Scrolls, and it is something that Tolkien, via his rather extensive history-of-world, also created for LOTR, was the sense of a very active, very old, very storied world that existed long before your character arrived, and would continue on long after your character left.

Now, being single player games, you character is always front-and-center to the major events happening in the world at that given moment, but Elder Scrolls games (at least going back to morrowind - I still haven't gotten around to playing daggerfall or arena) are fantastic about creating a living, breathing world, with a ton of intriguingly storied history, mysterious half-finished tales, heroic characters whose footsteps you can occasionally come across, and other various things - all of which creates a beautifully immersive world.

ESO has *some* of that. But it's...less central. But the single player Elder Scrolls games have a glorious sense of life, and presence, and if those are things that appeal to you, I highly recommend that you give them a try. It's easy to get lost in the world of Nirn, and there are so many things that have happened there.

Now, to be fair, the back-history of Nirn is not nearly as "coherent" as Tolkien's Arda-Lore. I've always suspected that there are great, gaping holes in the history of Nirn precisely to allow for room for mystery and future games to fill in mysteries - but I love that those mysteries are there, and they are definitely one of the key features that make the Elder Scrolls games stand out from most other RPG's.

[Tearna Quickfoot]

Well... you can go exploring and pick flowers and find rabbits and foxes and such in ESO. However, it doesn't have the community. How could it...it is new. I would never leave Lotro to play only ESO, but might pick it up eventually to play when things are slow in Lotro.

To answer why some of us like it, probably because we've played the RPGames that ESO was built on. So there is some lore if you're already an Elder Scrolls player. Not the same kind of lore, but it is built on stories, many of which are contained in books you find scattered all over the world.

I also like it because I love exploring. I'd almost rather explore a new world than quest and kill things. But generally exploring doesn't let you level up and you can't go some places without leveling up. :) I loved Skyrim because I could level up picking herbs and crafting while I explored and there were few places I couldn't go because I wasn't leveled up. Of course, in the MMO they do have level appropriate mobs in higher areas so you don't just have free range of the whole world.

However, like Andeon, there are way too many quest bugs for my liking. I got my Nord to 9 (and that area seemed the least bugged of the others I tried) but because quests my level were bugged out, that left me with quests over my level, some I could do but got gear I couldn't use for a couple of levels and some I couldn't do alone. I had this issue with another character in another starting area... by level 7 or 8 she had run out of level appropriate quests that weren't bugged. Frustrating.

The things they have in the bonus packs for pre-ordering have no draw for me (other than the horse to start out, but the horse isn't worth $80), so I'll probably wait a month or so and see how things go rather than jump in at the start.

[Suncho]

ESO early access starts on March 30th, and I'll be there with bells on, so don't expect to see me around for a bit after that. Ninang is back to being my main in the LMB, Shuck and Suncho are in CH. Those alts I was leveling are all up over 50 now, so they can go on hiatus for a bit.

The color palette of ESO isn't my favorite, but then neither is the palatte of LoTRO, you have to work hard sometimes to get non-drab / muted colors.

I went off to play SWTOR fully intending to never return, but as it crashed and burned with its cartel market and its sudden swap to f2p2p (free to pay to play) and the complete cessation of all interesting development of the good parts of the game ... well I learned a lesson.

The lesson was this: there may be games that are better than LoTRO at <pick your topic>, but there are few games that have as many good features as LoTRO has, and LoTRO has fewer game-breaking features (at least for me) than any other game. The STORE in Lotro is something I despise (and I hate the mithril coins even more) but it's not nearly as bad as the STORE/Cartel Market in SWTOR. The good folks at Turbine have actually mitigated the effects of the store considerably when you compare them to EA or Blizzard.

Now ESO is starting off as a full subscription game, and other than the perks you can get from pre-ordering the digital imperial version (which nearly every game has done forever in similar ways), there doesn't seem like much of a store so far. If the game is tolerable I'll be there for about as long as that lasts.

But I'm never leaving LoTRO forever again. I'm going to put aside at least one day a week where I log in to my accounts in LoTRO and check on characters and houses and folkses to talk to, and maybe run a quest or three. But for a bit I'm gonna be focusing most of my limited game time on ESO.

Since I'm not exactly leaving, I'm not posting this elsewhere, but my presence will be considerably less. Now I need to get back to practicing my lockpicking in Skyrim so I'm up on my skills next Sunday.

[Tearna Quickfoot]

Have fun, Suncho! I hope folks who venture over for the kick off do come back and let us know how things panned out when the game went live. So many bugs in the beta in so many areas. But then, I do recall when I first joined Lotro (and I didn't find it until it as 4-5 months old), it had a lot of bugs still too. Don't recall what they were right off hand, just recall some frustration with them. hehe

:)