WAR Racing - 2013-2014 Season Planning

[Kiralynn]

The 2012-2013 racing season was wonderful! Congratulations to the winners!

Although I'll be shifting into low gear until July, I can tell by the messages I have received that many of you are already excited about the next season. I'm starting this thread so that we can all express our ideas at leisure.


Here are the topics that need to be covered:

* Number of races -- We had one or two races each month. Is this too many, just right, or too few?

* Fun runs -- Are there any Banders who would like to start hosting fun runs (races that don't impact the standings) or full races?

* Scheduling races -- Most races were Wednesday nights with a few on Saturdays. Should this change? Do we need more weekend races?

* Types of races -- We had a variety last season; steeplechase (fairly long with many obstacles), endurance (long-distance), derbies (sprints), and fellowship runs (relays). Some used standard steeds, some fast, some war steed. Some were in cities, some went cross-country. How many (or what percentage) of each type should we offer this season?

* Prizes -- Now that it has become so difficult to get Turbine Points, what should we offer, and how much of it?

* Courses -- Which courses did you enjoy? Which ones need redesign and what would you change? Should we continue traveling all over for races, or should we pick a home area and design different courses there?

* Horse shows -- Should all races also have a mounted fashion contest, or should these separately scheduled events?

* Group rides - Should we schedule a few group light-roleplay rides cross-country?

* Other ideas -- Have any cool ideas or suggestions?

[Cennwyn]

I wasn't aware there were War-steed races! I'd be very interested in these because I like the idea of having to distribute points in order to maximize my speed.

As for timing, sadly, the big reason I don't race is that weeknights are impossible for me. So more weekend races, or events more in the mid-day (servertime) are always appreciated.

[Andeon]

SCHEDULE - 1 or two a month sounds like a good #, more than that would be a tad crazy, and would start to monopolize people's time I think.

Obviously, I'm biased, but I would prefer a few more weekend races as well - those are my only really available times (I think I made it to a wed race once because I was sick) - honestly, if you're at least partly commited to two races a month, I think one weekend and one mid-week might not be a bad distribution

FUN RUNS - I like the idea, and Fun runs would, on the down low, be an excellent way to test out new potential race routes, but I have to admit, I spend a considerable amount of extra game time practicing *actual* races, so much so that I'd be far less inclined to spend even more time on fun runs.

On the other hand, I seem to remember the "flash" races you used to run - those seemed like an excellent idea to just get a buncha people together, build a quick route, and send them off racing - I *seem* to remember that you had some issues though - so I don't know if those would be more trouble than they're worth

What you might try, is package fun runs as "Course Test" runs or something along those lines - get people to volunteer to race a route while looking for exciting landmarks or obstacles, and help you adjust the course based on their feedback. Make them professional course testers, as it were - you never know - it's an idea, anyway

TYPES OF RACES - I'd personally prefer some very strong obstacle courses...which I know is difficult, because ideally, you'd have to have a judge at each obstacle...but still, fence running, plank riding, fence jumping, river-crossing...I'd really like to see some strong obstacle courses

ps - NOT!! with warhorses, however - netcode is dodgy enough with standard horses, the warhorses have CRAZY collision and timing issues

I also miss straightforward tracks - you haven't had one of those in awhile - where there are no significant shortcuts or obstacles, just a well delineated track with some tight turns, and a lot of moment-to-moment course corrections to be made
I also can't remember the last time you had a multi-lap race - I'd like to suggest a couple of those

regarding #, I just think I'd like to see a roughly equal distribution - in my perception, you tend to prefer the longer races with the shortcut finding, which I've always found just a *tad* frustrating, because I like to think that there are other equally important skills to racing besides just having the best route, and I sometimes feel like those other skills get de-prioritized in favor of shortcuts.

PRIZES - Honestly, I'm okay with relatively modest prizes. A little gold, a couple of cosmetically interesting items, maybe even some traded favors (2 hour donation of questing assistance, donated by...) stuff like that.

COURSES - covered some of my interests above, but in general, A - Continue to go all over - I think it's valuable to have races in many locations throughout middle earth, showcase the diverse environment of the game
B - as for specific redesigns, I'd have to think about that for a long while - I'd *really* like the mathom cup (the one that starts in bywater, anyway) to *require* the broken bridge jump - I just like that - but I know that can be rough...

HORSE SHOWS - I like the horse shows, but I don't feel that *every* horse race needs a show. I also think you're going to start running into issues with repeated *theme* shows not necessarily keeping pace with the development of cosmetics - I always get the feeling that we've just about exhausted all the possible interesting Halloween themes, for example - course, I'm fashion impaired, so that could just be me :)

CROSS COUNTRY RP RIDES - I certainly don't mind if you schedule them, but I don't know how many I'd feel interested in joining. I think RP rides should be included as part of larger RP adventures/events, not events in and of themselves, although as once time special visual showcase (i.e. get like 20-40 riders, each in pairs, with distinctive outfits for each possible breed you can get a pair of - that'd be pretty interesting to see)

those are all my ideas for the moment - I've been pretty chatty on the forum today - think I need to take a break - I come up with anything else, I'll be sure to pipe up though!

[Caiyyd]

I actually came to Landroval because of the group rp/ride right before RoR came out. My little Hobbit Aleeta joined the group at the farms outside Bree and eventually found herself at the very gates of Isengard! I love the group runs (wild Hunt!) across the landscape and would take part in any that I could be online for. Same for fun runs. Just gather a group and go thundering across the landscape. Tally ho!!

As for more formal races ...
Warsteeds are a challange that I really like. Having some control over the steed as far as traiting for racing really appeals to me. The standard races sometimes frustrate me because it is all about picking the best route/shortcut and not about rider skill.

Obstacle courses/steeplechase would be a lot of fun as well - even just using the festival racetracks! Have judges at the planks to make sure folks stay on them, do a couple of laps for a longer race and see what happens!

I wish there was a way to do a true jump course/cross country event but I can't figure out how without there being waaay too many judges needed.

I like having lots of venues - it makes folks go places they may not have before! (I started a location deed during the Gondamon race since Caiyyd has never quested there!)

Prizes - I am fine with smaller ones. Grand prizes are nice but they tend to bring people who just want the prize and aren't there for the fun. I was very happy to see someone win the Bree Cup who had been to more than just a qualifier race!

[Nevanna]

Since the SRC, I am finding my interest in racing taking hold. Not overly fast mind you, but it is creeping in on me. Just had an idea while reading all these suggestions: Remember the deed to travel all over and collect different 'brews' to drink? What about a race where participants must buy something unique from a vendor or vendors? A scavenger race? I know these would depend upon many factors outside of horsemanship, but they might be fun a time or two. Another idea is to have race heats, where just two or three riders race against each other, elimination style or simply choosing small numbers to race against. Having these at different times/days might allow more people to get involved. Quick and simple.

For me to be more available for racing, I would have to see more events happen on weekends. Just starting working some major overtime and evenings are not good for me. Over the course of a year tho, that will most likely change and I could participate more during the week.

[Cennwyn]

Having had a bit more time to think on it:

* Number of races: 2 - 3 per month seems fine to me.

* Types of races -- Would love a chance to race my war-steed.

* Prizes -- Doesn't have to be big. Maybe a rare cosmetic item would be nice, or just a bit of gold.

* Group rides - This sounds like a ton of fun.

[Kiralynn]

Okay, let me try to respond to what we have so far...

It sounds like this schedule might work: One "official" race per month on weekends, a fashion contest every other race, and one talent show per season.

Of the 10 official races, we could split them into:
* 2 war-steed races
* 1 very long cross-country for +68% (IE: Forsaken Inn to Rivendell)
* 1 sprint for +68%
* 1 two-person relay for +62% (teams of 3 seemed too hard to organize)
* 1 course with laps for +62%
* 1 obstacle course for +62% (boards, water jumps, etc.)
* 3 steeplechases for +62% (many cliffs and jumps)

Plus...
* Fun run and fireworks show near 4th of July
* Group ride with mystery RP party for Halloween in October
* Fun run with holiday party for Christmas/Chanukkah in December
* Group ride with mystery RP party for Mardi Gras in February

What do you think?
Should there be one or two more war-steed races, in place of a +62% or +68%?
Would it work for folks if most weekend races were Saturdays at 1pm server/EST?
Would it work if the occasional weekday race is at 8:30pm on Wednesdays?

Should we bother with rider standings? Perhaps we should just publish race results?

My thinking on the obstacle course is to run it like a real life steeplechase - one rider goes at a time, so the judges can really watch and see if they pass the obstacles correctly. We time the run, and add to the final time for missed obstacles.

All of the courses will be better if racers and fans would submit ideas for courses that require no more than 4 judges plus the host. If it requires more judges than that, we risk having to cancel a race due to too few volunteers. All of the races that require turns and course corrections do so because they have obstacles, which leads to shortcuts...


As for a scavenger hunt, that sounds interesting. There are several different styles. Which one(s) are you interested in? The kind where you have to find a judge who gives you a clue to the location of the next judge? The kind where you are given a list of items that you must ride around and acquire? How do you prevent hunters and others with more travel options from having too great of an edge?


I also had feedback from the audience, suggesting that the riding team expand to 6 or 8 riders. We'd love to do that, but we need more regular members. If Wednesday nights are bad for you, Craicwyth had offered to reschedule. Now would be a good time to discuss that and expand the team, before planning begins for the next routine.

[Caiyyd]

Evenings tend to work best for me since the spouse likes to do things on Sat afternoons :)

I liked the rider standings -gave me a goal to work for! Maybe guarantee the top rider(s) a spot in the Bree Cup to reward their dedication to racing?

I think the scavenger hunt sounds fun. If you have judges hold named items that have to be retrieved it would avoid folks stuffing their bags in advance (or maybe have a specific colored cheap cosmetic - something that would be hard to guess)

[Kiralynn]

It would sure lighten up the Spring Racing Carnival for next year if all we had to do was run the parades, concert, Bree Cup and perhaps one or two qualifier races, then invite the top riders from the rest of the season. I wonder how that would go over...

[Caiyyd]

Looking at the rider standings and what I remember of the race folks I think most of the top names qualified. If you limited to the top 6 or so that would still leave plenty of room for the casual racer to qualify.

Another thing to consider to avoid the lag would be stage races. Once you have your qualifiers, race them in heats of 6 with the top 2 going to the final. Would make it more of a race festival feel as well as giving riders a chance to change their handling of the route for the final ( just have all heats and the final on the same course)

Edit:not sure if that made any sense. What I mean is have the qualifier races before the big day. Then have the performances, parade, shows,etc. before the heats. Run them back to back with the Bree Cup final being just your top 6 from the 3 heats.

[Kiralynn]

I do like the idea of heats, but the problem we're having is that the SRC is too long, yet everybody has their favorite event that they don't want to see cut. The only events that nobody said "I must attend!" are the qualifier races. If we cut those and replace them with heats, we didn't shorten the event at all. Is there a solution for this?

Personally I think moving out of Bree to avoid flying envelopes and festival NPCs/fireworks will cut a lot of the lag.

[Caiyyd]

Well, the heats would take less time since you wouldn't have to do the pace laps & rules before each one. Just have the riders gather, go over it once and then race away. Alternately you could do the heats between other events. Have heat one, then the fashion show, heat 2 then the parade, heat 3, a small concert and then the final race.

For that matter everything but the Cup itself could be at the Bree festival ground. Have the heats on the course there and have a grand parade to Bree for the final Cup run ( kinda like having the Bree Cup race through the streets of Bree :) )

[Byrcha]

I like the suggestion of using the standings to place some riders in the Bree Cup, it is an incentive, as well as hype/advertising.

I think variety is the key, in general. But a regular schedule is also helpful, since it gives folks something to plan for. So, 2 races per month; one on a Weds night, one on a weekend day. Variety to the types of races sounds good (some warsteed, some distance, some 62%, some with obstacles, some are fun-runs which don't count, etc.).

To keep things interesting, I'd suggest no repeat of a course during the year. E.g., we run the Michel Delving and Duillond loops twice each; while fun, it would be nice to expand the variety. Maybe add another really long cross country race (maybe part of a relay) from Needlehole to the Misties? With many folks at (current) level-cap, adding a race in GreatRiver/Rohan might be nice. Similarly, maybe a goat race through Moria (start at one door, end at the other)? And: Enedwaith, Dunland and/or Eregion would be scenic -- whether for fun-run or standings.

Not sure what to do about the heats/obstacles, but here is a thought specific to the water-hazard at the Festival race tracks: have a judge there to record whether the racers stay on the planks or fall in the mud via screenshot/fraps. The riders that go in the mud get some kind of point deduction off of a final score which would be a clean error-free run (points based on finish? 12 for first, 11 for second, etc., then subtract the deductions). I don't think we can get into timings without giving ourselves too many headaches -- even if lag isn't an issue (hah), most of our courses are short enough, and the riders are talented enough, that 10ths of seconds could come into play.

[Kiralynn]

Byrcha wrote:

So, 2 races per month; one on a Weds night, one on a weekend day.

Unless someone else becomes a regular race host using the Windy Acres rules, I can't pull this off, I'm sorry. I have a full time job and family.

Byrcha wrote:

Similarly, maybe a goat race through Moria (start at one door, end at the other)? And: Enedwaith, Dunland and/or Eregion would be scenic -- whether for fun-run or standings.

My concern here is that I can only handle 10 scoring races in the season. If they are all some kind of specialty race, will it throw off the standings? Let's hear from the top ranked riders and the newcomers.

Byrcha wrote:

Not sure what to do about the heats/obstacles, but here is a thought specific to the water-hazard at the Festival race tracks: have a judge there to record whether the racers stay on the planks or fall in the mud via screenshot/fraps. The riders that go in the mud get some kind of point deduction off of a final score which would be a clean error-free run (points based on finish? 12 for first, 11 for second, etc., then subtract the deductions).

Judging based only on errors will result in a lot of ties. The way they get past this in real life is to give an initial scored based on the time it takes to complete the course, then add time penalties for mistakes. You see that in a lot of sports and it works well.

[Keli]

Not being a racer, I don't have too much input but...

I like the simpleness (and ease of your workload) of 1 formal race per month. You may, of course, be able to pull off some casual, fun races too, especially long distance war-steed ones.

I found the Saturday of the SRC utterly exhausting - heavens knows how you managed, Kira. I would strongly support easing that a bit either by having less qualifiers on the weekend or using a full 2 days to do it. Either way, getting enough Bands to play took some begging on my part; next time I might just try some solos/duets to ease the load - after all, the audience doesn't much care as long as something is going on.