Formation Riding Team - Third Routine Planning Thread

[Kiralynn]

Ah, I know which maneuver you're talking about. You won't find it on our diagrams because it cannot be done with standard horses. We CAN do it with war steeds and I highly suggest that we do. It will take some practice but it will look impressive.


Here's something where I need some advice from all of you. We need some way to get all of our war steeds at the same speed for performances. There are several ways to do this.

My suggestion is to agree on a light war-steed Spec that allows for the tightest turning radius, and sets us to the slowest possible common speed. We could purchase an additional Spec from the store and spend all of our points the same way, or we could simply pay to un-spec our war steeds before every performance. This would be left up to the individual rider. The tightest turn radius would be to help with maneuvers, and the slowest speed would be to keep the trots and canters manageable.

What would you recommend? How do you think the steeds should be talented?

[Craicwyth]

A couple of notes:

First to Kiralynn: thanks for pointing out the errors on my diagrams. I will fix those when I go back to redo the hand-drawn sections. Also, the routine that I have posted was developed with warsteeds in mind. Circular moves, like the cloverleaf, feel much more fluid with them, which is why I feel justified having two of those maneuvers. I would not put those in to a normal routine, given our deadline this time, that we have new members (yay!) and how long it took us to learn it. This is also why it is running long: as I mentioned, I have run through it on a warsteed, and as it stands, it runs only 2 minutes and 40 seconds.

Also, as for traits...I recommend determining a routine before we choose. A lower agility score limits tight turns, but makes gentle turns easier to execute. Currently, I have a light warhorse with a single point in the blue line (Having no points seems to result in summoning a medium by default,) and was able to complete the routine with minimal difficulty. I think training by, for instance, attempting to successfully run around the field without running into walls would be a good exercise to teach the limits of a warsteed's control scheme.

Byrcha: my idea, and sorry for not making it clear, is to have both the Mathom steeds and warsteeds participate in the routine; four riders on one, four riders on the other. The difference in speed may add visual interest, while allowing both those with warsteeds and those without to participate. Of course, the groups will not be performing the same routine; they have to be in different places on the field to avoid collisions...I have just put the most work into developing a warsteed routine, so that is what I posted. Of course, doing two separate routines, or just dropping the warsteeds altogether, are real possibilities, and depending on everyone's wishes, time constraints, or wiser minds, that is what we may end up doing However, I thought that it was worth an attempt, at least as something completely novel.

Burrberry: one problem with those maneuvers, which does not neccesarily rule them out, is that speed control would be a major issue. To have the horses maintain position, in my mind, would require fluttering the throttle between 'walk' and 'trot', since unlike in the real world, our horses can't modify their pacing. Also, with the warsteed's speed controls being notoriously dodgey, it could complicate things even further. Once again, none of these rule those out, it just means we will have to do some experimenting. =D

As for the others...I am probably not a good one for judging that...They rub me the wrong way, but on the other hand, I can be fairly grumpy when it comes to 'fun' things, so I will let others discuss the merits of including them.

[Kiralynn]

RohanArchitect wrote:

Also, the routine that I have posted was developed with warsteeds in mind.

If we take out the circular maneuvers, it seems like a good routine for standard mounts. I'm worried about you working too hard on a routine that requires 8 riders, because that means we'll need a team of 9 to 10 (in case someone can't show). Right now we have 6.

Performing some of the maneuvers at a walk will increase the routine length without adding more maneuvers, though we could probably handle a few more.

RohanArchitect wrote:

A lower agility score limits tight turns, but makes gentle turns easier to execute.

That is an excellent point. If we don't put any points into turning, the cloverleaf will be easier.

RohanArchitect wrote:

To have the horses maintain position, in my mind, would require fluttering the throttle between 'walk' and 'trot', since unlike in the real world, our horses can't modify their pacing.

This is not necessarily true in the maneuver in the real world. The war steeds could maintain speed. The trick here is to adjust the diameter of the horse's circle so that it remains in position relative to the inner horse. If you find yourself pulling ahead, widen your circle, and vice versa. Limiting this to 2 or 3 horses... one in the very center, one walking, one trotting... might not be too bad. I think it is a very advanced maneuver but I wouldn't be surprised if we could pull it off. Y'all have demonstrated incredible skill.

RohanArchitect wrote:

Also, with the warsteed's speed controls being notoriously dodgey, it could complicate things even further.

This is so true. Perhaps y'all will help me push for Turbine to add "speed commands" and hotkeys in the next update. I am asking for /walk, /trot, /canter and /gallop with associated hotkeys. (Or at least /mountwalk, /mounttrot, etc.) I posted in the Suggestions thread so feel free to bump it.

On a side note, I noticed that having too much or too little agility and speed makes this worse. I did find a sort of "sweet spot" where it worked better.

RohanArchitect wrote:

They rub me the wrong way, but on the other hand, I can be fairly grumpy when it comes to 'fun' things, so I will let others discuss the merits of including them.

Could you please elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean by rubbing you the wrong way. We certainly don't want to do anything that will make you uncomfortable.

[Lilikate]

Hello Everyone,


I sit on the sidelines and watch you all make a routine!

Looks like my next aim is the Eglain mount, I decided Lilikate should join the Riders as she will advance faster than my lovely Emylot, Wardens I am not familiar with. I have no clue about routines. I leave you all to decide what is best. Yell at me when there is something I can begin rehearsing!

Glad to be onboard. :)

[Craicwyth]

Alright! Sorry for the delay (it involved an out of nowhere cold,) but here is the edited version of the warsteed routine:



This version should take in to account the audience's position, is leaves out strafing indicators, and should have appropriate lettering. Also, it is still too short for a warsteed routine. Suggestions on how to lengthen it are welcome.

As for being uncomfortable...Well, it just seems odd to be recklessly endangering hobbits and jumping over fire...Not for any practical reason (this is a game after all!) But it just...I don't know. To be fair, though, I was not overly thrilled with the jumping bit in our last performance, so make of it what you will.

[Kiralynn]

This looks like a really interesting routine!

I do have a couple of comments.

First, the transition between maneuvers 3 and 4 look difficult (impossible?) for war steeds and a bit awkward for standards, because you curve one direction in 3 and then immediately hard to the the opposite direction in 4. That transition may work better if say... rider C continues his turn to the right and loops around to the middle. The horses won't cross on the ends, but it otherwise looks the same.

Second, you have horses crossing each other repeatedly. Could you please adjust your diagrams to show separate tracks for the steeds? Otherwise they won't know who passes on the inside and who on the outside. Perhaps it could just be consistent, like always left-pass (IE: American driving) or always right-pass. Thus far we've been doing left-passing.

Third, I'd do maneuver 10 at a canter. We could also do maneuver 1 at a walk. If you want, we can do the first cloverleaf at a walk and the second at trot, to make them different. What do you think?

Perhaps we should come up with some way to indicate special speeds on the diagrams. Black for standard:walk/warsteed:trot, perhaps dark green for standard/warsteed:canter (the two we use most); purple for standard:walk/warsteed:walk, and dark orange for warsteed:gallop. Something like this.

Fourth, how does the last maneuver take us off the field? Just up the side?

Finally, maneuver 3 is really cool and I'd like to add it to the maneuver diagram. It's similar to Thread the Needle and Cross, but not quite. Let's come up with a name for it? If possible, I'd love to see maneuver names at the top of each diagram picture. It really helps me remember each one better.

I am really excited about trying this routine!

[Kiralynn]

Meanwhile, on another topic...

I've heard some of you fret about purchasing coat colors and patterns for your war steeds. Please don't worry about this. In real quadrille dressage, the horses do not look the same. They're often not even the same breed or size. Only their tack and uniforms match. I think it'll look visually very appealing to have different horses out there.

As far as I can tell, we have only three things to worry about with war steeds -

* Uniforms. Easy!

* Tack. Not too difficult. Basic saddles will do. We'll find something in common or go bareback if we have to.

* Traits/stats. Hopefully not difficult. Perhaps we simply clear all our traits, figure out who has the highest default speed and agility, then ask everyone else to trait themselves as close to that as possible.


On the issue of tack - I currently have the Rohan pre-order armor, the white winter tack, the Steed of the Hunter set, the Steed of Night set, and one that came as a faction reward with mailed shirt heraldry (sorry, I forget the name). What do you have?

For those of you who don't have war steeds yet but want to participate in the war-steed routine: Those who accept Volume III, Book 7 from Galadriel will start their exploration of Rohan in The East Wall at The Argonath. Note that this quest line actually begins in Lothlórien, and a conveniently "hanging rope" exists just to the left of the Gates to Caras Galadhon which will allow anyone into the city who has not yet completed the Quest:The Paths of Caras Galadhon. I would be happy to help escort you through this quest line to get your steed.

[Kiralynn]

Tonight is formation riding team practice!

Is there a new routine diagram?

Does anyone have comments on the previous two posts?

[Craicwyth]

Sorry Kiralynn! I actually finished the latest version several days ago, but did not post it since A. I did not fix the cornering problem, B. The way I wrote the passes is not consistent, and C. I am altogether still not happy with it, and am attempting some more fixes. Anyways, here is my attempt to clarify it:

[Kiralynn]

I have updated the page on formation riding with new diagrams. I have done my best to cover at least some of the new movements that Craicwyth has come up with.

The web page: http://windyacres.mymiddleearth.com/?page_id=1806

The document of riding diagrams: http://roll3d6.com/banders/dressage/maneuvers.doc

Please print the document if you get the chance. It's not yet comprehensive, but it will hopefully be useful.

(Note to Craicwyth: The version of the passes in this document keeps consistency. IE: Everyone passes like Americans driving cars, with the other rider on one's left.)

[Kiralynn]

Practice is two days away!

Craicwyth, do you need any help getting a revised diagram done for Wednesday?
Also, do you want to simplify maneuver #4 by having everyone make a right turn at the end of the previous maneuver?


For the rest of the team -

* Has anyone come up with ideas for equalizing our war steed speeds? Do we want to use light, medium or heavy steeds?

* Do you have suggestions (hopefully along with ABC or midi files) for our routine music? It needs to be 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 minutes long (or be easy to loop into something that long).

* Other than leaping over fire, what other nifty things can we do for an intermediate riding demonstration on our war steeds?


Also, to whomever copied the uniform last week, it hasn't been returned.

[Craicwyth]

Here is the latest edition of the routine:



The lettering and passing inconsistencies have been fixed. I considered simplifying the pass after the pass over manuver, as per Kiralynn's suggestion, but given everything, I do think the more complicated pass should work, even for warsteeds. As long as the approach to the corner is made at 45 degrees, and is far enough away, I think our horses should be able to make the corner. That said, if it does not, I will change it, but the additional pass and the symmetry it provides adds a little bit of visual appeal.

Furthermore, I have sent Kiralynn a .docx version of the file, but it may be problematic to access for practice tonight.

Finally, I must apologize for my delays. Without going into too much detail, this has been a rather bad week for me personally, and I have not had the patience to spend much time on this; I had hoped to be much further along by now. My only other achievement has been a half finished song (the Ypsilanti Galop) which A. goes out of range, B. sounds rather dark when brought down an octave, and C. has arrangement difficulties (the melody is easily lost in the harmony.) However, I could provide the .abc file if someone wishes to look over it.

[Kiralynn]

Tonight is riding team practice!

Don't forget...
* Music suggestions
* Printout of the routine
* Ideas for war steed demonstrations
* Thoughts on how to make war steed speeds equal


I may not be able to make it tonight, but don't worry, team captain Craicwyth is an equestrian expert and has designed an awesome routine!

[Craicwyth]

For your delight and edification, I present to you my rough draft of the warsteed routine. Riders without a warsteed need not bother with this one, and I recommend that all others wait to do anything until I can get a cleaned up copy prepared (among other things, step 14 is the incorrect maneuver.) However, questions, comments, and conclusions about my sanity are welcome!


routine-3-WS-Final-1

[Craicwyth]

Due to some questions about the viability of the routine outline in my previous post, I made a video that hopefully demonstrates its feasibility. I apologize for, among other things, the sloppiness of my maneuvers, but hopefully this will give everyone an idea of how it works:

http://youtu.be/tHIR51ZC7SA

This was my first outing with screen capturing, video editing, and youtube, so if anyone has advice on how I might do better, I would appreciate it. After five hours of video wrangling, however, this is the best you will get from me today!