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Carica
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re: Ales and Tales The Next Generation

Who's managing the Ales & Tales Twitter account these days btw?
I remember getting access to it a long time ago but forgot the password...


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Aedon Durreah
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re: Ales and Tales The Next Generation

Be sure to check out our new page on Facebook Ales and Tales Events!


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Kiralynn
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re: Ales and Tales The Next Generation

Wow, there are some amazing ideas in this thread!

You've probably already thought of this, so I apologize in advance if it's a repeat.

Has anyone reached out to the developers lately? They were reasonably responsive before and I've heard it's even better now that they're Standing Stone. You could ask for things like...

* Make a post that lists all the specific issues with stages and music locations. In years past, devs were more likely to start a "fix it" project when someone made it easy for them to print out an organized list of all the issues.

* Ask them to add a "Concert Manager" or otherwise named NPC to each of the major cities, which offer instant transportation to a list of the farther flung stages, for free. Or some other idea that would better address the problem of moving alt-bands.

That 23.2 Preview looks full of exactly those kinds of cool fixes. Maybe they're in a "fixy" mood. :)


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re: Ales and Tales The Next Generation

One of the things that the wanted to put in the works was a st method to any of the stages that exist through Middle Earth as well as some special method for folks to get to Belfalas Neighborhoods easily for shows. The idea of a concert manager would be great. Problem for the music community right now is that SSG has become laser focused on raids and weapons progressions. It is hard to get them to look at ideas for things such as this. We will of course keep trying. Kira, I had planned to hold the murder mystery along with a fall horse race. But things on my end got a bit hectic. What do you thin of planning and holding your spring racing program again next year? You would have plenty of help in this endeavor and I am sure it would be a huge hit.

If you think it is a go, I can contact SSG about some sort of prizes for the event.


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re: Ales and Tales The Next Generation

Speaking as an old guy who is a relative newcomer to LMB events, I'll add my agreement to most of the ideas that came up here, especially the point that started the whole thread: If people have to spend Mithril Coins to get a band to an Ales and Tales event, they will not be there.

Holding an event in a place normally accessible only to high-level characters is a doubly bad idea. In addition putting people off for that week's Ales and Tales, it paints the event as something for an exclusive in-group who have been in LOTRO long enough to reach the level cap. It only takes one bad impression like that to lose the interest of a new player forever.

Keep in mind that the lower-level characters includes most visitors from other servers, even those who were around since LOTRO started. Very few folks from other servers are going to spend real money to level up an alt on Landroval just to attend a few Ales and Tales events.


Other considerations come to mind when thinking about Ales & Tales locations:


a. Minimize the number of stable-masters and doors you have to go through. The best places are those you can ride to from Bree on your own horse.

Why: Shepherding a bunch alts through doors and stable-masters is an exercise in tedium. Crystal and I each have only one alt to bring along for our Hearth and Table band so it's not such a big deal for us, but imagine those who have as many as seven alts to herd to the site, each time having each individual character get through the gate, one at a time, and then relink the parade to continue on. We're heard that complaint a couple of times. It's a lot easier--and a lot more fun--to just link up the whole group and "Forth Eorlingas!"


b. Don't just minimize reliance on tribal knowledge; eliminate it entirely.

Have a stable URL where one can always reliably look up the location, times, and stuff for Ales and Tales, and in any announcement, always include that URL.

Make sure it's clear exactly where the location is, and what to do. Inside a kin house or outside on the lawn? Which lawn? That lake south of Bree is huge; where, exactly?

Is there an easy way to get there? The Mordor door at the kin house? OK, whose kin house? Where is it? Where in the house is the door? what the heck is a Mordor door? What does it look like? Don't assume that someone new to Ales and Tales knows, because that assumption bars the door to everyone who doesn't know.

I've never been to Ales and Tales. What should I expect? What should I do? Whaddaymean, "dance"? I can dance in LOTRO? What's with those drums? Hey I have something I'd like to share, but I don't even know if it would be welcome. Who do I talk to about it?


c. Don't discourage participants.

A couple folks hinted at ideas that would discourage regulars from participating. Bad idea. If you discourage them during the feast, they will not be there for you during the famine.

(That said, some folks might already know that Crystal and I are happy to fill a hole in the schedule when needed and just a happy to sit it out and enjoy the show when there are lots of other participants.)


d. Do discourage people from noisy attention-seeking behavior during someone else's performance.

Distracting and disruptive behavior is a bad habit for a few folks who often show up at Ales and Tales. Such childish rudeness might go unremarked, but it does not go unnoticed. Too much repetition of this behavior will drive away both participants and audience members who are there to enjoy the show. Never surrender the event to trolls.


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re: Ales and Tales The Next Generation

Good suggestions Harnuth. And you came up with something I have said time again.

If you discourage them during the feast, they will not be there for you during the famine.


I have some acts that have come through for me in a pinch, and make it also most weeks. I would hate to turn them away because they came when I called for their aid the week before.

I was thinking though that we can set aside 2 sets in each week for new acts, if there are in. Also most of our regular bands know that when too many sign up, the sets are shorter. Perhaps on feast nights even Old Winyards can take a shorter set? I have found that know that a community shares the good and the bad times, that it is a stronger community.

How about a special show say twice a year where we encourage a regular band, to bring a new act to enter into the show that night. I have been known to use a few extra minutes of time in a set to encourage a willingness to do something extra to see to it that the show, and acts go on. On feast nights tell those that have shown up time and again; "Thanks, I owe you an extra 5 mins on a future set. All I have done this for have so far cashed in their IOU on a famine night.[/b]


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re: Ales and Tales The Next Generation

Harnuth wrote:


c. Don't discourage participants.

A couple folks hinted at ideas that would discourage regulars from participating. Bad idea. If you discourage them during the feast, they will not be there for you during the famine.



As someone who has done Ales & Tales during the famine, I have to wholeheartedly agree with this. I can remember doing Ales & Tales when we had NO BANDS. None. Not because of location or anything..... there just weren't any bands for whatever reason. Old Winyards played, Sullo juggled and told jokes. The show still went on..... but we sure did miss having bands playing. And this is why we work very hard to try and fit bands into the schedule and give them some decent playing time. It's a tough job and Aedon does it wonderfully. Ales & Tales changes constantly over time but I don't believe it would ever be wise to discourage any band.....or any individual for that matter.....from sharing their talent.


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re: Ales and Tales The Next Generation

So many great ideas from all of you! Let's hope we can harvest some of this to bring Ales and Tales through the next decade at least.

My personal focus would be:

1) Make it shorter and smaller. What? Why?
Well, a full A&T runs, including N&N, for more than three hours. That really is long and tedious. And you see audience diminishing through the hours - multiplied by the fact that all these many-alt bands just log out after their part.
And smaller - really encourage more one-person acts, or duos. That is in a way more personal, and an easier role model for potential future acts too. If all I see is well-polished many-people acts, I would never dream of stepping up with something small I might have to share. Encourage people to step up and tell a short store (it is A &_Tales_ anyhow!), some riddles, jokes, whatever. Don't fear a small act without sound.

2) Advertise more!
We need to reach out to more people. Old-timers know the AlesandTales channel, and it is a great invention for all of the event community on Landroval. But you still need to know about it ...
Even LotroArtists.com (assuming it will reapper soonish) is a place you need to know and frequent. I learned about Ales and Tales from the events calendar Turbine had in the forums of old.
The facebook page is a good thing (but lets join the A&T group and page/site please - it is confusing as it is right now). Add Twitter to have something to retweet, forum entries on the SSG forums, and yes, also ads on /world from time to time. (but use that sparingly, not to spam and annoy people).
Any other places that are frequented by LotRO players?

Having a central landing page with all the detailed information that Harnuth mentioned (great ideas!) is a good idea.
AlesandTales.com currently points to this guildlaunch site of the LMB. Nice, but does not really help people who are looking for Ales & Tales, because that info is hidden in small links. Maybe we could work on this? A very simple blog-style page for AlesandTales.com could possibly an idea, and every other place (FB&co) pointing to that.
(I am happy to help with any technical aspect of that. But don't make me design public accessible things ...)

On the other hand, while I do agree that with the current type of participation, the A&T Extreme editions are not really helping. But, well, they are interesting and special, I'd be sad to see them gone completely. We already try to limit those locations - maybe in future only go one a quarter to such areas?


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re: Ales and Tales The Next Generation

For the extreme locations the thought is to limit them to twice a year and make them events to look forward to. Like the walk into Mordor for Halloween, or a trip to Dol Amroth's little outdoor theater. The large one in Erebor would be great to use if they would make travel there easier and perhaps tweak the sound distance or lower that stage a bit.

Facebook is a good way to go right now as it it used by so many people. Advertising has not been lacking to tell the truth. I run ads on the Lotro forums,Faces of Landroval FB page, LMB facebook page and now the Ales and Tales one. In addition, I call out during the week on Ales and Tales in game channel all through the week, and from 7pm through show time. And yet I still have people send me tells asking me where Ales and Tales is this week on Monday as I am doing my call outs. We use the ales and tales and regional channels. I shy away from using the world channel as it is an open invitation to come grief the show.

Our best advertising for Ales and Tales is visibility. Have it in as many towns or along the beaten paths as we can. Like a pop up Carnival. It encourages drop in audience who many times come back the following week.

I agree for sure that Ales and Tales is simply too long. And by the end of the acts most folks are ready to head off to other things. But seeing that most weeks we have 3-4 bands only with sets that range from 10-15 mins a piece cutting the acts is not a good answer. In fact, some bands stopped playing Ales and Tales because the short time they have to play makes it unattractive them as opposed to setting up in Bree and playing a full set. So time becomes the great enemy of the show.


Last edited by Aedon Durreah on 2018/12/06 9:15 am; edited 1 time in total


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re: Ales and Tales The Next Generation

One other thing I thought of.
People enjoy the pictures on the pages, and more so they enjoy pictures of their bands featured. How about adding an Ales and Tales photographer? Grab a few screenshots of the bands at Ales and Tales and posting them on the Facebook pace? Also, some random shots of the crowd dancing. Give them reasons to frequent our pages.


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re: Ales and Tales The Next Generation

Aedon Durreah wrote:
One other thing I thought of.
People enjoy the pictures on the pages, and more so they enjoy pictures of their bands featured. How about adding an Ales and Tales photographer? Grab a few screenshots of the bands at Ales and Tales and posting them on the Facebook pace? Also, some random shots of the crowd dancing. Give them reasons to frequent our pages.


well thats a pretty cool idea!
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re: Ales and Tales The Next Generation

You offering to serve as photographer Greyy?


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re: Ales and Tales The Next Generation

I think many of us can endeavor to take some screenshots of the events and post them to a forum thread. Even this last week, when I changed my appearance, after I changed it back I was like, "Oh yeah, I probably should have taken a picture..." It'd be nice to have more of a record of events. The more people that do it, the better, because I know that people who are "working" the event can be busy throughout it in ways that aren't apparent.

About A&T Extreme: what if we did those one months where there are five Mondays in it? That only happens a few times a year.
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re: Ales and Tales The Next Generation

I like the five month think Veri. And yes, any of us can take the screenies and post them.


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re: Ales and Tales The Next Generation

Hey, I'm wondering if an online calendar showing the location for Ales and Tales would be good, like the one that Prof. Corey Olsen uses for his classes.

Here's the Mythgard calendar for an example: https://forums.signumuniversity.org/index.php?forums/calendar.69/
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