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re: Star Wars 7 discussion - MASSIVE SPOILERS

I'm guessing Beor never played Final Fantasy 7.... Aerith being killed by Sephiroth affected me much more than Kylo killing Han.
I see Han's death as a parallel to Kenobi's death on the Death Star in A New Hope (except Han's not going to show up as a force ghost)since Han was becoming a sort of father-figure/mentor to Rey, even for a short time.

They had said early on that the Expanded Universe novels were no longer canon when it comes to the new movies, which makes me wonder why they pulled so many script ideas from there.

I see much of TFA as a love letter to the original trilogy (and the fans), and a way to introduce the "Next Generation" storyline.

Gotta say though... loved the Poe Dameron character. The fighter combat sequences were amazing... especially in 3D. Also loved Max von Sydow's cameo at the start of the film. And of course our very own Andy Serkis... Is it just me, or does the Supreme leader bear a striking resemblance to Gollum?


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re: Star Wars 7 discussion - MASSIVE SPOILERS

I was actually very impressed that the Supreme Leader did not resemble Gollum to me. I felt this was Andy Serkis doing an amazing job of bringing a new character to life. A lesser actor would have made a carbon copy of his previous roles.

You make an interesting comparison. I have wondered if the death of Han was played down just like the death of Obi Wan Kenobi so that it would be meaningful to adults yet not horrific to children. I would have liked it to have more impact. I'm not sure why it didn't, as Han is one of my all time favorite Star Wars characters. I did feel deeply sorry for Leia.


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re: Star Wars 7 discussion - MASSIVE SPOILERS

As a fan of movies-only (haven't watched any of the TV series or read novels or anything) I really enjoyed the new movie.
But I can understand why the die-hard fans would be disappointed if it's anything like how I felt about JJ's Star Trek movie, as while it was also fun to watch it felt more like a movie inspired by Star Trek than an actual Trek movie... still, I found Force Awakens really fun despite plot holes - more like I'm holding my final judgment on plot holes until the end of trilogy hoping they'd explain some of the stuff.

Han Solo dying was shocking indeed, but then I thought "I wonder if Harrison Ford REALLY doesn't want to reprise his role and is done with it!" because that's why they (tried to) kill him off in the original trilogy to begin with. XD
At least with carbon freezing they still had room to bring him back, but with the stabbing, falling and exploding planet, it looks like he may be dead for good. Maybe they'll bring him back in flashbacks? I mean, there are so many untold stories here about what happened during the timeskip, especially about both Rey and Ben.

I really liked Finn's character. It was refreshing to see a stormtrooper show a humane side, and his chemistry was good with both Poe and Rey.
I didn't like the emo kid (Ben) trying to fill his grandpa's shoes though. I thought him turning to the dark side whether he was brainwashed by the supreme leader or not was pretty weak.


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re: Star Wars 7 discussion - MASSIVE SPOILERS

Carica Zoi wrote:
As a fan of movies-only (haven't watched any of the TV series or read novels or anything) I really enjoyed the new movie.
But I can understand why the die-hard fans would be disappointed if it's anything like how I felt about JJ's Star Trek movie, as while it was also fun to watch it felt more like a movie inspired by Star Trek than an actual Trek movie... still, I found Force Awakens really fun despite plot holes - more like I'm holding my final judgment on plot holes until the end of trilogy hoping they'd explain some of the stuff.

Han Solo dying was shocking indeed, but then I thought "I wonder if Harrison Ford REALLY doesn't want to reprise his role and is done with it!" because that's why they (tried to) kill him off in the original trilogy to begin with. XD
At least with carbon freezing they still had room to bring him back, but with the stabbing, falling and exploding planet, it looks like he may be dead for good. Maybe they'll bring him back in flashbacks? I mean, there are so many untold stories here about what happened during the timeskip, especially about both Rey and Ben.

I really liked Finn's character. It was refreshing to see a stormtrooper show a humane side, and his chemistry was good with both Poe and Rey.
I didn't like the emo kid (Ben) trying to fill his grandpa's shoes though. I thought him turning to the dark side whether he was brainwashed by the supreme leader or not was pretty weak.


I think you hit the nail on the head. It really sums up how I feel well -- a movie based on Star Wars. If you've seen JJA's reboot of Star Trek then that quite literally is how it feels to the diehard fans of Star Wars. Especially since those who read a lot of the fiction can see plot lines and characters snatched from the books and used in JJA's movie. It irks the fans of the books that he and Disney tossed the books out the window only to leech from them afterwards. :/

Ben is an example. In the books, Ben is Luke's son. Han and Leia had twins (Jaina and Jacen) and Anakin. Jaina ends up killing Jacen when the latter goes darkside, after the latter kills Mara Jade (Luke's wife). So I fully anticipate Rey (Jaina reincarnated) to be the one to kill Ben/Kylo (Jacen reincarnated), and instead of Jacen killing his aunt, it's Kylo killing his dad.

I can't say enough how underwhelming Kylo is. He strikes me as a whiny crybaby who can't stand on his own two feet. Running off Kira's comments above, I think Kylo killing Han would have had a greater impact if Kylo wasn't such a wuss.


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re: Star Wars 7 discussion - MASSIVE SPOILERS

Oh yes. Like Anakin. Wow, did that annoy me... I even tweeted about wanting a real badass villian and not such a emo boy again. We had one already and for me he was the reason to ignoring Episodes 1 to 3.

Speaking of emo... there even is a Twitter account "Emo Kylo" or similar and the internet had some good fun with that one. But if he stays like that the 8th movie will be my last to watch and I would not be surprised if many would cry out. But they have at least set it up properly already. Let Kylo become a determined bad guy please...


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re: Star Wars 7 discussion - MASSIVE SPOILERS

I've seen that EmoKylo twitter stuff... it's really hilarious


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re: Star Wars 7 discussion - MASSIVE SPOILERS

Jacen is a much better good-guy-gone-wrong than Anakin Skywalker and Kylo Ren put together.

Anakin Solo was always my favorite of the Solo boys, though. Shame he died so young. Jaina, of course, is still going strong (IMO, anyway -- I don't care what Disney says, it's still real to me).

I was okay with Anakin Skywalker, because I got to see him as a child, and we got to see collectively what was so wrong with the old style of training Jedi. Anakin had to take a lot of crap from his own order because of how old he was when he began his training. Not to mention the added pressure about being "the chosen one" and whatnot.

And the necessity to throw off attachments, such as his mother. What kind of jerks leaves his mother in such a destitute situation? Even if they can't maintain contact, the least they could do is pay to free her and find her someplace safe to live. She loses her child and they gain another Jedi, and the Order can't at least help her out a little?

Hayden Christensen was a poor actor (great with a lightsaber but lousy at acting), but if they'd had a better person to play the part, I think Anakin Skywalker was all right. Even Palpatine wasn't born evil.

Kylo is just as bad (the actor is, anyway), though I find the whole talking-to-a-skull thing a little mental... He's just too unsure of himself. At least when Anakin went darkside, he did it and that was that. He didn't have to talk to a skull to convince himself.


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re: Star Wars 7 discussion - MASSIVE SPOILERS

My problem with Kylo talking to the Vader mask was the complete illogical nature of his emotional focus.
Surely he knows that Anakin returned to the Light before he died and wouldn't want Kylo to "finish what he started".
Unless his new Master told him that was a lie? Usually Force sensitive people know the truth when they hear it, so I doubt that.

Like previous posters, I'll be fine with Kylo's insecurities if he becomes stronger and more self-confident in the sequels.

I'm also a little disappointed that Rey had so much Force power and Force-guided abilities without training.
That always irked me about Anakin. I prefer the Luke Skywalker approach where it takes training to unlock those powers.
She was a hotshot fighter, pilot, engineer, and Force-user right out of the gate.

I thought she was obviously Luke's daughter when she put on the Red 5 X-wing helmet (Luke's) before she left her homeworld.
The lightsaber was not the first possession of Luke's that she was drawn to.


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re: Star Wars 7 discussion - MASSIVE SPOILERS

Tamoro wrote:
I'm guessing Beor never played Final Fantasy 7.... Aerith being killed by Sephiroth affected me much more than Kylo killing Han.
I see Han's death as a parallel to Kenobi's death on the Death Star in A New Hope (except Han's not going to show up as a force ghost)since Han was becoming a sort of father-figure/mentor to Rey, even for a short time.

They had said early on that the Expanded Universe novels were no longer canon when it comes to the new movies, which makes me wonder why they pulled so many script ideas from there.

I see much of TFA as a love letter to the original trilogy (and the fans), and a way to introduce the "Next Generation" storyline.

Gotta say though... loved the Poe Dameron character. The fighter combat sequences were amazing... especially in 3D. Also loved Max von Sydow's cameo at the start of the film. And of course our very own Andy Serkis... Is it just me, or does the Supreme leader bear a striking resemblance to Gollum?


I am not sure how anyone was ever killed by Sephiroth. I mean the guy had this theme song that played every time he showed up. Duh, hear the music, get out of town fast.
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Kiralynn of Rohan wrote:
My problem with Kylo talking to the Vader mask was the complete illogical nature of his emotional focus.
Surely he knows that Anakin returned to the Light before he died and wouldn't want Kylo to "finish what he started".
Unless his new Master told him that was a lie? Usually Force sensitive people know the truth when they hear it, so I doubt that.

Like previous posters, I'll be fine with Kylo's insecurities if he becomes stronger and more self-confident in the sequels.

I'm also a little disappointed that Rey had so much Force power and Force-guided abilities without training.
That always irked me about Anakin. I prefer the Luke Skywalker approach where it takes training to unlock those powers.
She was a hotshot fighter, pilot, engineer, and Force-user right out of the gate.

I thought she was obviously Luke's daughter when she put on the Red 5 X-wing helmet (Luke's) before she left her homeworld.
The lightsaber was not the first possession of Luke's that she was drawn to.


I don't think that was a mask. I think it was literally Vader's skull. It still had teeth in it. Bleh!

I have never heard that Force-sensitive people could know the truth when they heard it. Palpatine lied to a whole galaxy of Force-sensitives (and even more regular folk) and got away with it. Heck, they couldn't even tell HE was Force-sensitive himself.

The only power I remember Anakin having was his quick reflexes, which helped him in podracing. I don't remember the movies or books revealing him to have other powers until after he began his training. I also did like that Luke required training, though. And yeah, I found it very unrealistic that Rey could use her powers so well, when a few days before she didn't even know she HAD those powers. At least on Jakku she didn't seem to be exhibiting any of them, though. Han Solo is a hotshot fighter, pilot and engineer as well, and he doesn't have any Force abilities whatsoever. Rey has had to live on her own for probably 15-ish years. In those conditions you have to grow up faster and learn how to do things quicker, just to survive.

Is that really Luke's helmet, though? A lot of time has passed, so really there is nothing saying it isn't Luke's, but I don't think it's a guarantee. There was that huge rubble of a star destroyer in the desert. Stands to reason there are loads of crashed X-Wings and other Imperial/Rebel spaceships. It could have come from anywhere.


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Kiralynn of Rohan wrote:
My problem with Kylo talking to the Vader mask was the complete illogical nature of his emotional focus.
Surely he knows that Anakin returned to the Light before he died and wouldn't want Kylo to "finish what he started".
Unless his new Master told him that was a lie? Usually Force sensitive people know the truth when they hear it, so I doubt that.

Like previous posters, I'll be fine with Kylo's insecurities if he becomes stronger and more self-confident in the sequels.

I'm also a little disappointed that Rey had so much Force power and Force-guided abilities without training.
That always irked me about Anakin. I prefer the Luke Skywalker approach where it takes training to unlock those powers.
She was a hotshot fighter, pilot, engineer, and Force-user right out of the gate.

I thought she was obviously Luke's daughter when she put on the Red 5 X-wing helmet (Luke's) before she left her homeworld.
The lightsaber was not the first possession of Luke's that she was drawn to.


I can accept the force abilities for one reason. IF she is Luke's THEN as Luke had rebuilt a Jedi Academy, she was young enough where he would have had her as a Youngling, where she would have began to tap into her abilities. Now, something happened where either she doesnt remember the leader of the Jedis at the time having been her father, as she was waiting for her parents, never mentioning anything about Jedi. So something may have happened with her memory. When she was left on Jakku, should looked 10-12, old enough to have been a youngling in the past, even if she does not remember.

IF in fact this is the case, then I can accept that her abilities were starting to be honed, and her body took up after the prebuilt muscle "force" memory from her training. Yes, this is all a big IF, and I do hope more is understand.

The big issue is:

If she is daughter of a Jedi/Luke why did she not remember the Temple/Academy
If she does not remember Luke/Jade Mara....then who are these parents she remembers?
Could Luke have put some jedi "block/spell" on her to remember differently, to protect her?

The Door that entered the area where Luke's Saber was...I wonder if it was only triggerable by either him, or someone with his DNA as a lock. I doubt the door with a saber in a chest inside would have been kept unlocked.


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re: Star Wars 7 discussion - MASSIVE SPOILERS

Forte Maestro wrote:
Kiralynn of Rohan wrote:
My problem with Kylo talking to the Vader mask was the complete illogical nature of his emotional focus.
Surely he knows that Anakin returned to the Light before he died and wouldn't want Kylo to "finish what he started".
Unless his new Master told him that was a lie? Usually Force sensitive people know the truth when they hear it, so I doubt that.

Like previous posters, I'll be fine with Kylo's insecurities if he becomes stronger and more self-confident in the sequels.

I'm also a little disappointed that Rey had so much Force power and Force-guided abilities without training.
That always irked me about Anakin. I prefer the Luke Skywalker approach where it takes training to unlock those powers.
She was a hotshot fighter, pilot, engineer, and Force-user right out of the gate.

I thought she was obviously Luke's daughter when she put on the Red 5 X-wing helmet (Luke's) before she left her homeworld.
The lightsaber was not the first possession of Luke's that she was drawn to.


I can accept the force abilities for one reason. IF she is Luke's THEN as Luke had rebuilt a Jedi Academy, she was young enough where he would have had her as a Youngling, where she would have began to tap into her abilities. Now, something happened where either she doesnt remember the leader of the Jedis at the time having been her father, as she was waiting for her parents, never mentioning anything about Jedi. So something may have happened with her memory. When she was left on Jakku, should looked 10-12, old enough to have been a youngling in the past, even if she does not remember.

IF in fact this is the case, then I can accept that her abilities were starting to be honed, and her body took up after the prebuilt muscle "force" memory from her training. Yes, this is all a big IF, and I do hope more is understand.

The big issue is:

If she is daughter of a Jedi/Luke why did she not remember the Temple/Academy
If she does not remember Luke/Jade Mara....then who are these parents she remembers?
Could Luke have put some jedi "block/spell" on her to remember differently, to protect her?

The Door that entered the area where Luke's Saber was...I wonder if it was only triggerable by either him, or someone with his DNA as a lock. I doubt the door with a saber in a chest inside would have been kept unlocked.


I can see where you are coming from with this memory thing, but I personally hope they (JJA) does not do that. For example, if Luke did do some block on her memory, she would have forgotten all her training (and keep in mind, when we see her as a child, we see her as a very YOUNG child -- no one with the training of a youngling can stand against a sith, as Anakin Skywalker proved to a whole classroom full of them). And if this is the case, even if the block is starting to come down, she hasn't used her powers in years -- probably at least a decade. Yet, again, she is able to use a mind trick and fend off Kylo Ren.

The thing that makes it the hardest to believe (her fending off Kylo Ren) is that Finn was also able to do that initially. Kylo Ren is a pathetic fighter, both with the Force and with a lightsaber.

About the door to the lightsaber, it looked like there was a lot of other rubble in there. I doubt it is triggerable only by someone of the Skywalker lineage. The woman who owns the place seems to have been entrusted with the lightsaber (either that, or she took it after Luke discarded it).

Based on wiki, there is roughly 10 years age difference between Kylo and Rey. She was 5 in the flashback, which would put Kylo at 15. Old enough to go darkside. But in the flashback, Rey's parents (whoever they are) are being taken away and that was the last she ever saw of them. Even if it was Luke (and his wife), she definitely recognized them, so her memories were still intact. If it was not Luke, then it begs the question of whether or not they are her biological parents. If they are, then the idea of her being a Skywalker can be tossed out. If they are adoptive parents (without her knowledge), but she truly is a Skywalker kid, then that would mean she'd have been even younger (young enough for the block and to grow up knowing different people as her parents -- the way Luke and Leia did). Which would likely mean she'd have been too young for any training at all.

I also find it interesting that the lightsaber is there at all. Of course, in the EU, the lightsaber and Luke's hand were retrieved and used to create a darkside clone of Luke. But the lightsaber Rey touches is the very one that Luke lost in Cloud City (one of the visions is of Cloud City). It seems highly likely that three of the visions were not hers -- Cloud City, Luke with R2, and the Knights of Ren. Only her own childhood memory was hers, from what I can tell. It seems far more likely to see someone else's memories when touching someone else's lightsaber, rather than your own. More that the deep anguish left a mark on the lightsaber, and that is what she felt -- and her own anguish (parents taken away or left her) responded to it.

Personally, I think it is going to just be too easy for her to be a Skywalker. We already know there were plenty of other people training to be Jedi. The Skywalker line is not the last of the Force-users in the galaxy. I just hope she isn't a Skywalker.

Also, somewhere above the helmet was mentioned. It is not Luke's, but rather belonged to the rebel pilot Dosmit Raeh. The name in Aurebesh is on the side of the helmet.

*edit* Another thing to note. Apparently in the novelization of ep7, at some point Ren says to Rey: "It is you." And apparently in the movie he had a reaction when the commander (or whoever it was -- I only vaguely remember the scene) said the droid got away with a stormtrooper and a girl -- that he reacted to the word "a girl". There is a lot of speculation that Ren knew of her existence, that he was the one who put her on Jakku (perhaps taking away whoever her parents were or whatever).

And my memory could be off, but I coulda sworn in that vision sequence, when we see her as a child, whoever was holding her arm spoke harshly to her. If Ren did put her on that planet, for whatever reason, it would make sense that it wasn't done out of compassion.


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re: Star Wars 7 discussion - MASSIVE SPOILERS

Mar-Evayave wrote:
Forte Maestro wrote:
Kiralynn of Rohan wrote:
My problem with Kylo talking to the Vader mask was the complete illogical nature of his emotional focus.
Surely he knows that Anakin returned to the Light before he died and wouldn't want Kylo to "finish what he started".
Unless his new Master told him that was a lie? Usually Force sensitive people know the truth when they hear it, so I doubt that.

Like previous posters, I'll be fine with Kylo's insecurities if he becomes stronger and more self-confident in the sequels.

I'm also a little disappointed that Rey had so much Force power and Force-guided abilities without training.
That always irked me about Anakin. I prefer the Luke Skywalker approach where it takes training to unlock those powers.
She was a hotshot fighter, pilot, engineer, and Force-user right out of the gate.

I thought she was obviously Luke's daughter when she put on the Red 5 X-wing helmet (Luke's) before she left her homeworld.
The lightsaber was not the first possession of Luke's that she was drawn to.


I can accept the force abilities for one reason. IF she is Luke's THEN as Luke had rebuilt a Jedi Academy, she was young enough where he would have had her as a Youngling, where she would have began to tap into her abilities. Now, something happened where either she doesnt remember the leader of the Jedis at the time having been her father, as she was waiting for her parents, never mentioning anything about Jedi. So something may have happened with her memory. When she was left on Jakku, should looked 10-12, old enough to have been a youngling in the past, even if she does not remember.

IF in fact this is the case, then I can accept that her abilities were starting to be honed, and her body took up after the prebuilt muscle "force" memory from her training. Yes, this is all a big IF, and I do hope more is understand.

The big issue is:

If she is daughter of a Jedi/Luke why did she not remember the Temple/Academy
If she does not remember Luke/Jade Mara....then who are these parents she remembers?
Could Luke have put some jedi "block/spell" on her to remember differently, to protect her?

The Door that entered the area where Luke's Saber was...I wonder if it was only triggerable by either him, or someone with his DNA as a lock. I doubt the door with a saber in a chest inside would have been kept unlocked.


I can see where you are coming from with this memory thing, but I personally hope they (JJA) does not do that. For example, if Luke did do some block on her memory, she would have forgotten all her training (and keep in mind, when we see her as a child, we see her as a very YOUNG child -- no one with the training of a youngling can stand against a sith, as Anakin Skywalker proved to a whole classroom full of them). And if this is the case, even if the block is starting to come down, she hasn't used her powers in years -- probably at least a decade. Yet, again, she is able to use a mind trick and fend off Kylo Ren.

The thing that makes it the hardest to believe (her fending off Kylo Ren) is that Finn was also able to do that initially. Kylo Ren is a pathetic fighter, both with the Force and with a lightsaber.

About the door to the lightsaber, it looked like there was a lot of other rubble in there. I doubt it is triggerable only by someone of the Skywalker lineage. The woman who owns the place seems to have been entrusted with the lightsaber (either that, or she took it after Luke discarded it).

Based on wiki, there is roughly 10 years age difference between Kylo and Rey. She was 5 in the flashback, which would put Kylo at 15. Old enough to go darkside. But in the flashback, Rey's parents (whoever they are) are being taken away and that was the last she ever saw of them. Even if it was Luke (and his wife), she definitely recognized them, so her memories were still intact. If it was not Luke, then it begs the question of whether or not they are her biological parents. If they are, then the idea of her being a Skywalker can be tossed out. If they are adoptive parents (without her knowledge), but she truly is a Skywalker kid, then that would mean she'd have been even younger (young enough for the block and to grow up knowing different people as her parents -- the way Luke and Leia did). Which would likely mean she'd have been too young for any training at all.

I also find it interesting that the lightsaber is there at all. Of course, in the EU, the lightsaber and Luke's hand were retrieved and used to create a darkside clone of Luke. But the lightsaber Rey touches is the very one that Luke lost in Cloud City (one of the visions is of Cloud City). It seems highly likely that three of the visions were not hers -- Cloud City, Luke with R2, and the Knights of Ren. Only her own childhood memory was hers, from what I can tell. It seems far more likely to see someone else's memories when touching someone else's lightsaber, rather than your own. More that the deep anguish left a mark on the lightsaber, and that is what she felt -- and her own anguish (parents taken away or left her) responded to it.

Personally, I think it is going to just be too easy for her to be a Skywalker. We already know there were plenty of other people training to be Jedi. The Skywalker line is not the last of the Force-users in the galaxy. I just hope she isn't a Skywalker.

Also, somewhere above the helmet was mentioned. It is not Luke's, but rather belonged to the rebel pilot Dosmit Raeh. The name in Aurebesh is on the side of the helmet.

*edit* Another thing to note. Apparently in the novelization of ep7, at some point Ren says to Rey: "It is you." And apparently in the movie he had a reaction when the commander (or whoever it was -- I only vaguely remember the scene) said the droid got away with a stormtrooper and a girl -- that he reacted to the word "a girl". There is a lot of speculation that Ren knew of her existence, that he was the one who put her on Jakku (perhaps taking away whoever her parents were or whatever).

And my memory could be off, but I coulda sworn in that vision sequence, when we see her as a child, whoever was holding her arm spoke harshly to her. If Ren did put her on that planet, for whatever reason, it would make sense that it wasn't done out of compassion.


First of all, there is a difference between being trained by a Sith, and being trained but a Force User of the Darkside. We don't know of this Leader IS a Sith, or just a Dark Side User. Sure, there is always a Sith Master and an Apprentice, but are we to assume this is what this pairing of these two are?

In the scene with Rey on Jakku, we don't see her parents being taken away. We see her being pulled by a large creature on the Planet, probably that trash dealer, and a ship flying away. Nothing about parents being taken. Looks more like she was left there by who ever was in the ship. Probably not Rey, as he would probably have killed her if it was Luke's daughter. Probably a family member or friend of family.

When asked the plot line of the new Trilogy, we are told it is the continuation of the Skywalker line. I dont think that must means Ren/Ben. I think we are seeing the Light/Dark fight between Rey/Ben, an on going fight between cousins. This unknown Supreme Leader training Ren, and Rey going to be trained by her own father as was done by Ben for Luke. He will probably refuse at first, not wanting another Ren to be created, but probably, just like Luke/Yoda, he will cave and start training her either again, or for the first time and our reasons why she is able to do what she is ale to do is cleared up. If not, if the ease of her initial use of the Force and Saber isn't ever cleared, then it would en up being poor writing imho.

Finn seems to, while not have force abilities, have more of an ease with a Light Saber. Sure, a non-force user can use Sabers, as I dont think the General was a FU, but he seemed to have an ease and grace with using it. Now, I hope this isnt just for him to look flashy and cool, with out a reason in the writing. I douht they would just make him use it well...with out there being a real reason, such as him finding out he is the child of Jedi that he was taken away as a child from, or ending up being force sensitive.

It is curious, as both he and Rey look the same age that BOTH appear to have been taken from their parents at a young age. Could they both have been children of Jedi that were present at the Ren Knight destruction of the new Temple?

Imagine him as Lando's son :) hehe He was the only black guy in the original SW right? :)


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re: Star Wars 7 discussion - MASSIVE SPOILERS

Forte Maestro wrote:
First of all, there is a difference between being trained by a Sith, and being trained but a Force User of the Darkside. We don't know of this Leader IS a Sith, or just a Dark Side User. Sure, there is always a Sith Master and an Apprentice, but are we to assume this is what this pairing of these two are?

In the scene with Rey on Jakku, we don't see her parents being taken away. We see her being pulled by a large creature on the Planet, probably that trash dealer, and a ship flying away. Nothing about parents being taken. Looks more like she was left there by who ever was in the ship. Probably not Rey, as he would probably have killed her if it was Luke's daughter. Probably a family member or friend of family.

When asked the plot line of the new Trilogy, we are told it is the continuation of the Skywalker line. I dont think that must means Ren/Ben. I think we are seeing the Light/Dark fight between Rey/Ben, an on going fight between cousins. This unknown Supreme Leader training Ren, and Rey going to be trained by her own father as was done by Ben for Luke. He will probably refuse at first, not wanting another Ren to be created, but probably, just like Luke/Yoda, he will cave and start training her either again, or for the first time and our reasons why she is able to do what she is ale to do is cleared up. If not, if the ease of her initial use of the Force and Saber isn't ever cleared, then it would en up being poor writing imho.

Finn seems to, while not have force abilities, have more of an ease with a Light Saber. Sure, a non-force user can use Sabers, as I dont think the General was a FU, but he seemed to have an ease and grace with using it. Now, I hope this isnt just for him to look flashy and cool, with out a reason in the writing. I douht they would just make him use it well...with out there being a real reason, such as him finding out he is the child of Jedi that he was taken away as a child from, or ending up being force sensitive.

It is curious, as both he and Rey look the same age that BOTH appear to have been taken from their parents at a young age. Could they both have been children of Jedi that were present at the Ren Knight destruction of the new Temple?

Imagine him as Lando's son :) hehe He was the only black guy in the original SW right? :)


I find it probable that the leader is a Sith, simply because the movie talks about Ren finishing what Vader started. Vader did defeat his master (which is what Sith do in the Rule of Two), but did not take on that mantle himself. I think Ren wants to do what Vader couldn't -- become the Sith Lord. That being said, I don't think Ren qualifies as a Sith just yet (indicated by his incomplete training). He is Kylo Ren of the Knights of Ren -- no sign of a "Darth" title.

The Rule of Two also may not apply anymore. With the deaths of both Vader and Palpatine, that left the galaxy with neither a master nor an apprentice. There is no saying that multiple Sith couldn't rise, because there was no Master around to tell them otherwise. Now, the EU had plenty to say on the Rule of Two -- the ancient Sith Order once had as many Sith (not just dark side Force users) as the Jedi Order had Jedi. That mandate is a thousand years old and it died with Vader/Palpatine. It remains to be seen how JJA will run with it.

We don't see Rey's parents leaving, and I only saw the movie once thus far, but I am pretty sure that Rey makes numerous comments throughout the movie that her parents were planning on coming back, and that she was waiting on Jakku for them to return. Coupling that with the scene where she is being left behind, it is strongly implied that it was her parents leaving in that scene. If her parents had never been there in the first place how could they "come back" for her?

Technically speaking, Kylo Ren would still be a continuation of the Skywalker line, through Leia. Rey doesn't HAVE to be Luke's daughter. I would be okay if that's how it turns out, but it just feels too easy, IMO. I definitely agree it's gonna be some Rey vs Ren thing. That's how it was in the EU (Jacen vs Jaina, with Ben roped along for a little while).

I definitely hope that the current plotline holes are cleared up in the next film. I agree, it would be poor writing if they just skim over those facts. It's just that -- on its own two feet without future films to support it yet -- Ep7 has some pretty big holes. We can guess all day long but still not really have any answers.

The thing about Finn and the lightsaber is that the lightsaber is not a standard weapon. That's why the only non-Force user we've ever really seen use a lightsaber effectively is half-droid (General Grievous). The blade has no weight, so wielding a lightsaber is not like using any other melee weapon. Non-Force users acquiring a lightsaber is not easy. Just about the only way is to take it from the corpse of a Jedi/Sith. Otherwise you'd see people running around with them all over. The lightsaber is the signature of a Force user -- it identifies them to the whole galaxy.

Parts of the movie did feel like they were done for the flashy affect. For example, Finn is able to briefly fend off Ren, and then Rey is able to beat him, yet earlier on we see Ren stop a blaster bolt in midair and then casually walk around as if it were nothing. His abilities seem intermittent and random, and coupling that with his self-doubt it makes him seem like nothing more than a wannabe.

According to wiki, Finn would be between Rey and Ren in age (6 years younger than Ren, 4 older than Rey). If Rey was only 5 and Ren 15 when he went darkside, Finn would have been 9. That seems a little old -- I got the impression that the children taken for reconditioning were much younger than that.

I do hope that Finn doesn't end up being force-sensitive. I like when we can have some good heroes that don't have to rely on the Force for things, and Poe hasn't had enough screen time yet. That being said, I could get on board with him being a Calrissian. There have been rumors that Lando returns in ep8 (along with a female Sith/darkside user) to avenge the death of a friend (clearly would be Han Solo, of course).


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re: Star Wars 7 discussion - MASSIVE SPOILERS

Really great discussions still going on, I love it :) Meanwhile I find myself to be much more of a Star Wars geek then even I knew. The other day I pre-ordered a set of Rey + BB8 from Hottoys, bought six X-Wing table top game models (just for the great models, actually, see my recent tweets about it on Twitter) and subscribed to a DeAgostini series "Build the Millennium Falcon" which ultimately will give me a studio scale model of that ship... I am really geeking out much harder than I ever expected from myself. The whole Star Wars thing is so deeply rooted in me that it's hard to stop me from going way overboard with all this, lol (well, the wallet eventually put in a veto...)


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