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Lennidhren
RannaDylin
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re: LMB Book Club, August 21: Silmarillion ch. 6

Here are discussion topics for our meeting this weekend - 4pm EDT Sunday as usual! We are ch. 6 "Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor."

(1) What do we learn from the story of Miriel about Elves and immortality?

(2) We are being set up in this chapter for the Very Dysfunctional Family of Feanor. What warning signs do you see in his personality and family relationships as outlined in ch. 6?

(3) Melkor's sentence is up, and he goes free...Why do the Valar not see through his act of contrition and compliance?

Short chapter, so that's all I can come up with!


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Lennidhren
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re: LMB Book Club, August 21: Silmarillion ch. 6

Heads up: I may be a little late to book club. As usual I'm at my parents' for the weekend, and there's construction on my usual route back to Indy so I will be seeking an alternate route...I may or may not manage to get logged in by 4!


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re: LMB Book Club, August 21: Silmarillion ch. 6

Our new puppy is ill, so I can't get there today. Have a great discussion.

Gaiagil


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re: LMB Book Club, August 21: Silmarillion ch. 6

Sorry we missed you, Gaia, and hope the puppy is feeling better!

And here's this week's chat log:

### Chat Log: OW/Books 08/21 04:18 PM ###
[To lmbbookclub] 'That too!'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'stupid feanor, finwe and fin-whatisname?'
[lmbbookclub] Wilzo: 'Haha, thats probably going to be me, but ill give it a shot'
[To lmbbookclub] 'All right, so it looks as if we are ready to get started!'
[lmbbookclub] Wilzo: 'considering its chapter by chapter slowly, maybe i can get more out of it than my last attempt'
[To lmbbookclub] 'As usual we begin with general thoughts on the chapter. This is ch 6: Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor...'
[To lmbbookclub] 'So who has a comment to start us off?'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'Feanor was a Nietzchean, consumed with himself'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'well, comment #1 - it opens with Melkor Being chained, and its been so long, I had to go back to remember how it happened'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'turns out the entire elf migration occurs AFTER melkor is chained...'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'pushed the whole melkor thing right out of my head'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'It was very hard to believe the Valar could have released him'
[lmbbookclub] Jonathson: 'Melkor destroys the lamps, destroys the Valars first home - Creates Orcs....and they let him loose?'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Yep! Hm, that raises an interesting point, Andeon - Melkor was chained before the Elves came to Valinor; that may help to explain why, when h was unchained, so many of the Noldor trusted him so easily'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'actually, theres a passage that makes it make sense, of a sort...'
Your friend, Kaleigh, has gone offline.
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'it says since Manwe was w/o sin he forgave everything'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'hrm...thats a rather loose paraprhasing...'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Well, and Melkor had completed the sentence they assigned him...'
[To lmbbookclub] 'So justice had been served, so to speak'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'it says "Manwe was free of sin and could not understand it"...which is not quite the same thing'
[lmbbookclub] Weigelia: '(Hello, sorry i'm late)'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Greetings Weigelia! Not too late, we're just on the opening comments now'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'and it goes on to mention that Manwe remembered the time when Melkor was much like Manwe...so Manwe finds it difficult to believe in melkors unrepentant evil'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Aye - he sees too much of himself in Melkor then...'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'even in our law, after you serve your time you are supposed to be "given a 2nd chance"'
[lmbbookclub] Weigelia: 'And Valar probably can't understand evil'
[To lmbbookclub] 'You know, we are already discussing topic 3 at this point so I'm just going to slip it in here anyway :-)'
[To lmbbookclub] '(3) Melkor's sentence is up, and he goes free...Why do the Valar not see through his act of contrition and compliance?'
[lmbbookclub] Jonathson: 'Well - some things are unforgivable'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'well, honestly len, what is there to see through?'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'thats the problem with evil...'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'is that it can *fester*...'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: '"actions" are all anyone can *see*...as far as I know'
[To lmbbookclub] 'To see through? Well, he acts compliant but underneath it is planning revenge'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'and we are talking about hundred and hundreds of years'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'perhaps Valar have some special power to see into someone's soul...but I don't remember it being mentioned'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Doesn't seem that they do'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'and melkor carefully hides his malice, and his *actions* speak consistently to his contrition...'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Interesting to me is how Nienna supports Melkor at this judgment - but Mandos is silent...'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'it says Ulmo never trusted Melkor, so maybe he could'
[lmbbookclub] Inzilzagar: 'Don't forget that a single misdeed, if never forgiven, can push someone into permanent evil, too. I think Manwe's gentleness was the wiser choice than assuming unmitigated evil right out of the gate.'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'yup - ulmo isn't fooled, and tulkas - well, i'm not sure if he's fooled or not, but doesn't care :)'
[lmbbookclub] Weigelia: 'Tulkas doesn't need any help to be a fool, does he ?'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Aye, I think so too, Inzil. Justice without second chances is just...well, perhaps vengeance of another sort.'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'and theres what Inzi just brought up - Manwe, being good, *does* understand the nature of good, and could understand that being branded evil often engenders evil'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'what was Nienors skill or ability? i forget'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'Nienna?'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Nienna is acquainted with grief...'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'I thought she was the crying one...but I can't remember for sure'
[To lmbbookclub] 'And pity is thus natural to her, so that does account for her support for Melkor here'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Well...any more about Melkor, or shall we move on (or back) to Feanor?'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'Ulmo seems to me to always be the one more in touch with what is really going on'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Yes - Ulmo is always in the know because of what he hears from the waters....'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'he's also frequently separate from the other valar though...'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'his isolation seems to give him...keener observational powers...'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'i agree Andeon'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'is it Introspection or something else?'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'honestly, at some point, it might be just being away from the happier more content valar'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'something about community tends to reinforce points of view'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'isolationists are...I think...slightly more inclined to hold more radical views...'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Good point...'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'less re-inforcement of community values'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 're-enforcement? *shrugs*'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'Morgoth never really attacked the waters-just the land and animals'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'you don't try to "fit in as much" when u are so isolated'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'its an interesting point - Ulmo is...less personally targeted by Morgoth's destruction, but is still capable of understanding the destruction he causes...'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Maybe being less targeted by Morgoth also gives him greater distance to understand him better, and thus not be deceived'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'perhaps Ulmo is less *personally* invested in his opposition of melkor, so he's more capable of being less *personally* invested in his redemption'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'he can treat...heh...len and I thinking along the same lines...'
[lmbbookclub] Weigelia: 'And water runs everywhere'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'yes, he has that intellectual distance that allows him to think more clearly about the problem'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'I think of Ulmo as being a deep thinker and Manwe as "above" certain thoughts'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'reminds me of a line from "Legend" ...tom cruise is talking about Unicorns, and he says...'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'fits their realms'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: '"They know only love and laughter - dark thoughts are unknown to them"'
[To lmbbookclub] 'That does seem to apply to the inhabitants of Valinor during this goldne age'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'and the Vanyar'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Or as the chapter calls it, "The Noontide of the Blessed Realm"'
[lmbbookclub] Weigelia: 'And to hobbits ^^'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'yes, weigelia hobbits too have that innocence'
[lmbbookclub] Inzilzagar: 'Interestingly, Tom Bombadil doesn't have it - and he's described as being quite innocent in some ways.'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'It is never explained where Hobbits come from'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'Isnt Bombadil a Maia?'
[To lmbbookclub] 'He could be...but Tolkien never said for sure, did he?'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'a mommy kisses a daddy, the angel tells the stork, the stork puts a pie, under a cabbage leaf in the cabbage patch, and thats where hobbits come from!'
[lmbbookclub] Inzilzagar: 'He claims himself to have been in Arda before the Elves migrated west for the first time.'
[To lmbbookclub] 'I think now's time to move on to the next topic though...we're drifting away from ch 6 :-) So back to Feanor, all the way back to his birth!'
[To lmbbookclub] '(1) What do we learn from the story of Miriel about Elves and immortality?'
[lmbbookclub] Inzilzagar: 'Immortality is overrated?'
[To lmbbookclub] 'How so?'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'not sure. her body seems dead but maybe her soul isn't?'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Aye, it says her soul went on to the halls of Mandos - but what does that mean for Elves, anyway?'
[lmbbookclub] Inzilzagar: 'Well, it seems that even to the blessed Elves, life sometimes isn't worth living anymore.'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'ah, thank you len'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: '"Who wants to live forever?"'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Yay for channel color coding, Cap'n :-)'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'well, being in Mandos *does* effectively take them out of the game...''
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'what their own experience is like, doesn't seem to really have an effect on what happens as far as those left behind''
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'maybe the souls can "converse" with each other in Mandos'
[lmbbookclub] Jonathson: 'If her soul is in the Halls of Mandos - then what would she be thinking once Feanor shows up, too?'
[lmbbookclub] Jonathson: 'A lot more guilt?'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'i get the feeling that what souls can do in mandos doesn't really *count*, so much...'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'bad boy, bad boy'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'well it might count for them, but not for the outside world'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'we haven't reached a point where anything that happens in mandos carries over into the world of Arda...I get the feeling that whatever goes on there, is it's own separate story'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Hm...I don't think we get much crossover...er, literally...between Arda and Mandos, until the tale of Beren and Luthien, do we?'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Though that again is beyond the scope of ch. 6 so we'll think more on this matter when we get to that tale...'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'I really don't understand what happens to Beren but that is much later'
[To lmbbookclub] 'On to the final topic then: Feanor! Locney, this one you reallly can call a Crazy Elf!'
[To lmbbookclub] '(2) We are being set up in this chapter for the Very Dysfunctional Family of Feanor. What warning signs do you see in his personality and family relationships as outlined in ch. 6?'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'I think Feanor would have turned out differently if he had had a mother to help'
Lotropad save executing soon...
[lmbbookclub] Inzilzagar: 'Dubious.'
Lotropad settings saved.
Lotropad data saved.
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'he is incredibly jealous of his brothers and the new mother'
[lmbbookclub] Weigelia: 'I wouldn't call feanor crazy... He's dedicated to a fault'
[lmbbookclub] Inzilzagar: 'He counted himself the equal of the Vala, do you really think he would give his parents' advice much head?'
[lmbbookclub] Inzilzagar: 'Errr, heed'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'classic obsessive workaholic'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'I was gonna say...the very nature of Feanor's birth is what drove his mother to mandos'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'I think it was his nature to be as...focused, as he was'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'and I don't think he was really all that jealous of his brothers and sisters...'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'the passage I remember only said that he was not close to them'
[lmbbookclub] Locney: 'Someone get that Elf a hand-held vidya-game!'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'its hard for narcissists to be jelaous of anything, really - its counter to their self-absorbed nature'
[To lmbbookclub] 'It said he had no great love for his stepmother or her sons...'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'book says the wedding was not pleasing to Feanor'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Not that he was jealous, I guess, but he just didn't like that part of the family'
[lmbbookclub] Weigelia: 'Narcissic ? Or proud ?'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'i think it goes beyond proud...It doesn't actually say he was prideful, necessarily, either...'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'just focused, to the exclusion of most other things...'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'Nietzchean- everything for him because he is sooo superior'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'of course, I could be overlooking elements of passages'
[lmbbookclub] Weigelia: 'Well, he was the most gifted craftman ever, so he had reasons to be proud'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'proud yes but not to do what he did to his brothers and the Teleri'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'he would stomp on anyone to get what he wanted'
[lmbbookclub] Inzilzagar: 'Not at first.'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'true Inzil- maybe that was the influence of Morgoth'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'yeah, as far as this chapter goes, Feanor isn't evil, or even cruel...'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'just...rather focused, and somewhat dismissive of other people'
[lmbbookclub] Weigelia: '(The thing is, if there was a trial in Mandos for Feanor's actions, i would love to be his defence attorney)'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'what he becomes later, I dunno'
[lmbbookclub] Inzilzagar: 'I think his "sin" was to resist the will, then the forgiveness, of the Vala. Remember Tolkien's moral compass.'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'but it *is* a setup for one of the classic falls of man...'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'yes'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Aye...much of this comes later though. As far as this chapter, setting up his family background...'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'the driven person that is *so* driven that they disconnect from the consequences of their activities...'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'and it seems he passed some of this down to most of his sons'
[lmbbookclub] Inzilzagar: 'He didn't. I'm pretty sure their flaws were more or less caused because they, in turn, resisted the Vala and followed their father's will out of pride.'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'dunno about that, but we *can* generally argue that Finwe passed down some of his own obsessive focus of Feanor into Feanor...if you understand my meaning'
[To lmbbookclub] 'From doting too much on his first son?'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'while finwe has another family and other sons, Tolkein makes special note of the fact that Feanor was always the prime focus of Finwe's attention'
[To lmbbookclub] 'True. I suppose Feanor may have been spoiled somewhat - as Finwe's only reminder of Miriel...'
[To lmbbookclub] 'And at the same time, all the time Finwe spent mourning Miriel, sitting watch over her body and all, is time that he's potentially neglecting that favored son'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 's'true...and remember, miriel lingered for some time after feanor was born before she "left" for mandos'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'so, maybe feanor lived for a time as a child, knowing that his mother essentially *wanted* to pass beyond the world because of his birth, and his father lingering at her empty body...'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Very likely'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'that has to mess someone up at least a little bit :)'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Interesting, though, I don't really see a sign in this chapter of Finwe *resenting* Feanor for Miriel's death...'
[To lmbbookclub] 'You would think there would be some of that to add to the pressures on Feanor, but I see no hint of it. Just that Finwe loved this son best.'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'well I thought she had no choice- she was burned up by giving so much in birth'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'its true, its not mentioned...maybe it comes up later...or maybe it doesn't at all - but it is one of those interesting unadressed things that would make for a great fan-fic'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: ''
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: '@ Gilladh - i'm not sure you can say there was no choice...thats very...vague...'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'cuz it didn't kill her outright...she lingered...'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'Hello book club@'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: '!'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'and *wanted* to go to mandos - its possible it was a metaphor for the rigors of childbirth...'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Welcome, Lindorieh!'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'if you have given so much in a birth, there may not be enough "life" in you to continue'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'but the way its presented, she didn't *have* to go to the halls of mandos, although she could not bear to stay where she was - doesn't mean it wasn't a *choice* though...'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'as in, she was not forced by outside biology/forces of nature/spirit to go there - her soul wasn't torn from her body against her will...'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'Coincidentally, I am editing the Silmarillion Seminar podcast at the moment.'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'although, again, it could just be a metaphor, the classic "giving up the ghost" kind of thing'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'book says she was consumed in spirit and body'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'The Tolkien Professor made my his producer for the seminar....so I have to keep up.'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'made me, that is.'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Nice coincidence, Lind! What chapter(s) is the seminar on now?'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'Otherwise I'd join you.'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'In real life we are finishing up the Alkallabeth.'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Andeon - I get the same impression, that departing to Mandos is entirely her choice...'
[To lmbbookclub] 'And as for being consumed - interesting that it's not actually the rigors of childbirth that cause that, but the fact that Feanor himself is a person of such large spirit it's as if he took more than his fair share of life from her'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'But the next one to be released is chapter 9, Of the Flight of the Noldor.'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'And I agree with Andeon :-)'
[To lmbbookclub] '(On a side note, my mom always used to say that I took half her brain when I was born, that's why she would be scatterbrained...then my sister was born and got the other half...poor Mom! Something like that for Miriel, but less joking?)'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'yup, after she is *consumed*, she still lingers, and *yearns* for release...'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'hehe....if only I had that excuse'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'Definitely a unique elven death'
Your friend, Elahndria, has come online.
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'it is interesting that Elves seem to have more conscious control AND awareness of the...quantity...of their spirit, as it where'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'were'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'Didnt Luthien cause herself to die also?'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'and i thought something similiar happened to Elronds wife'
[lmbbookclub] Jonathson: 'No , she had enough of Middle Earth after the incident in the mountains'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'did she "die" or just pass oversea? i forget'
[lmbbookclub] Jonathson: 'Sailed Wst'
[lmbbookclub] Jonathson: 'West'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'ok my bad'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Hm...looks like about time to be wrapping things up...Any final thoughts on Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor?'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'melkor is plotting, and Feanor is trouble waiting to happen'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'sounds like a match made in heaven'
[lmbbookclub] Jonathson: 'Keep him locked up!'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Summed up nicely, Andeon'
[To lmbbookclub] 'And yet - note how Feanor, like Ulmo and Tulkas, is one of the few to always distrust Melkor'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Melkor later claimed he'd been an influence on Feanor, but Feanor always avoided him'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Only one Feanor ever asked help from - and that only for a brief while - was his wife'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'well, to be fair, its more like Melkor's *nature* had an influence on Feanor - cuz Melkor is sort of the living embodiment of rebellion and tyranny...'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Hm...so in a way, Feanor becomes the Melkor of the Eldar...'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'but they became "estranged"'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'so, to that extent, he might be right - but yes, and yet, the relationship of two very strongly willed, but otherwise oppositional folks...their relationship could be very...complex indeed'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'yeah, thats another tragic romance waiting to be detailed...'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Interesting, then, that despite their parallel positions they are never allies, but bitter enemies. Though of course that's because of the Silmarils.'
[To lmbbookclub] 'And that all...is a tale yet to be told. :-)'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'good ending Lenni :)'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'Feanor in his youth, strong willed, the one woman he will occasionally listen to, and as time passes, his will solidifies, she can no longer sway him...'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'Nerdanel is strong willed too'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'but yes, good point to end on, Len - although, I've sorta planned for book club to take up 2 hours, so, by my clock, you've still got 50 minutes :)'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Well it was a short chapter - I could only come up with three questions!'
[To lmbbookclub] 'And we still have readalouds to do'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Shall we start on that? Or are there any more thoughts to share?'
[lmbbookclub] Wilzo: 'a short chapter and yet i saw so much conversing in here, impressive'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'just 2 more chapters till SPIDERS SPIDERS SPIDERS!!!'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'it was a very...dramatic, short chapter :)'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'alot of sad relationship stuff here'
[To lmbbookclub] 'True! After all, the two topics of this chapter - or the two central characters - are both key to everything yet to come!'
[To lmbbookclub] 'The whole Silmarillion is basically Feanor's story, named for his Silmarils.'
[To lmbbookclub] 'At least the Quenta Silmarillion part of this book, you know.'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Ready for readalouds, then?'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Who wants to read today?'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'but the "life" inside the Silmarils is Vala'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'what is reading?'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'i find it curious that the silmarillion/silmarils are such a central part of Tolkien's world, but that they have no presence themselves in the Lord of the Rings...'
[lmbbookclub] Locney: 'Ready fer an invite!'
[To lmbbookclub] 'We'll form a raid to use voice chat and those who wish to can read aloud an excerpt from the chapter'
[lmbbookclub] Khizli: 'Well, they appear through Earendil.'
[To lmbbookclub] 'I'll start forming the raid, so if you're not here at the kinhouse, follow Loc's lead and speak up if you want to listen or read :-)'
Attempting to invite locney into fellowship.
(Waiting for recruit to accept or decline ...)
Attempting to invite andeon into fellowship.
(Waiting for recruit to accept or decline ...)
The loot rule has changed to Round Robin with Roll/Pass.
The loot quality has changed to Uncommon.
You have joined the chat room for your Fellowship, Fellowship chat is now available.
You have joined a Fellowship.
Attempting to invite gilladh into fellowship.
(Waiting for recruit to accept or decline ...)
Andeon has joined your Fellowship.
Attempting to invite sammis into fellowship.
(Waiting for recruit to accept or decline ...)
Attempting to invite khizli into fellowship.
(Waiting for recruit to accept or decline ...)
Gilladh has joined your Fellowship.
[lmbbookclub] Jonathson: 'Need invite'
Attempting to invite jonathson into fellowship.
Khizli has joined your Fellowship.
(Waiting for recruit to accept or decline ...)
Jonathson has joined your Fellowship.
Sammis declines to join your Fellowship.
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'but as far as I know, Eirandil doesn't show up either, except with Frodos little vial, which might not be the same thing, depending on how I mangled the pronunciation'
[Fellowship] Gilladh: I will just spectate this time if it is ok. I don't have mic hooked up
[To Fellowship] That's fine!
[Fellowship] Andeon: right oh - but if you want to *hear* people, you can still turn on the voice in your audio options
[Fellowship] Andeon: that way you can still hear folks
[lmbbookclub] Casinthelion: 'I'd say invite me, but I'd be too tmepted to spam Loc with summons to Elrond's library'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Why so fond of Elrond's Library, Cas?'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Also - now is the time to volunteer if you want to read from ch. 6. Who's up for it today?'
Jonathson has acquired [Cempa].
[lmbbookclub] Casinthelion: 'It's where we need to be for 3.1.9, assuming he's talked to the Ranger bloke for 3.1.8'
[Fellowship] Gilladh: thanks Andeon. voice enabled now
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'thinking....thinking...'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'I think i'd like the near last section, the trial and pardon of Melkor...'
[Fellowship] Andeon: glad to help - its a very useful technique for instancing too - even ifyou can't talk, b eing able to hear team leader in near-immediate voice can really save a fellowship sometimes
Jonathson has acquired [2 Chunks of Silver Ore].
Jonathson has acquired a [Chunk of White Rock-salt].
[Fellowship] Gilladh: who is that?
[Fellowship] Gilladh: pleaseed to hear you hehe
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'Oooh, can I listen?'
Locney has acquired a [Legendary Shard].
Locney has acquired a [Legendary Shard].
Locney has acquired a [Legendary Shard].
Locney has acquired a [Legendary Shard].
Locney has acquired a [Legendary Shard].
Locney has acquired a [Legendary Shard].
Locney has acquired a [Delicate Heritage Rune of Legend].
Locney has acquired a [Scroll of Lesser Renewal].
Locney has acquired a [Major Weapon Legacy:
Position Surprise Strike from Stealth].
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'i'm sure you can...len will have tosend out the invite tho'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Sorry for the sudden AFK - parental phone call :-)'
Attempting to invite lindorieh into fellowship.
You have joined the chat room for your raid, raid chat is now available.
You have joined the chat room for your Fellowship, Fellowship chat is now available.
Jonathson has acquired [2 Chunks of Rich Iron Ore].
Attempting to invite lindorieh into fellowship.
(Waiting for recruit to accept or decline ...)
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'i figured it was something like that...'
Lindorieh has joined your Raid.
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'afk bio - be back in 2 mins'
Jonathson has acquired [3 Chunks of Rich Iron Ore].
Lindorieh has acquired a [Soft Skin].
Khizli has acquired a [Leather Brace].
Lindorieh has acquired a [Very Sharp Claw].
Lindorieh has acquired a [Soft Skin].
Jonathson has acquired a [Flat Whetstone].
Jonathson has acquired [3 Chunks of Rich Iron Ore].
Lindorieh has acquired [2 Soft Skins].
[To lmbbookclub] 'They're on their way to a meeting and had to call and let me know that they are just passing through Indy now...So! I think we're ready to go when Andeon is back. Anyone else want to read? Or shall I take a bit at the start of the chapter and Andeon take'
[To lmbbookclub] 'the latter part?'
Lindorieh has acquired a [Very Sharp Claw].
Lindorieh has acquired [2 Soft Skins].
Lindorieh has acquired a [Very Sharp Claw].
Lindorieh has acquired a [Soft Skin].
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: '*is back*'
[Fellowship] Gilladh: you are dancing something called war brnsle i learned in SCA
[To lmbbookclub] 'So sad!'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'Very sad'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: './clap'
[To lmbbookclub] 'And you, Cap'n!'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'Very important passage, there.'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'yes thank you very much Lennidhren. this was wonderful'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Glad you enjoyed it! Join us anytime!'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'Yes, Andeon, I agree.'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Now! About next week...'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'well that applies to all if you assume free will'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'Although Melkor definitely pushed him in the direction he wanted'
[To lmbbookclub] 'I'm not sure if I will be online by 4 next Sunday. Latin club meeting out of town...'
[lmbbookclub] Gilladh: 'next week then'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'yes and no...free will means you're responsible for your part in your fall'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'Yes.'
[To lmbbookclub] '*Usually* it ends early enough that I should be back in Indy by 4, so we will plan on ch 7 for next week at the usual time'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'but many faults of many people can be equally blamed on those that led them to it, as well'
[To lmbbookclub] 'But just be aware that we may get started later than usual'
[To lmbbookclub] 'And I think that wraps things up for this week. On to adventures!'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'I agree....Feanor is to blame. I wonder if he would have fallen even without Melkor?'
[To lmbbookclub] 'I think he would have, Lind'
[lmbbookclub] Andeon: 'all right len-, just don't show up late to chapter 8 - or I might just have to begin without you :)'
[To lmbbookclub] 'Even without the loss of his Silmarils - something else would have brought him into contention with the Valar!'
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'That's an interesting thought.'
[To Raid] Disbanding for SNS to start - /lmbbookclub is still open if anyone has more to discuss though!
[lmbbookclub] Lindorieh: 'His pride almost equalled that of Melkor'
[lmbbookclub] Wilzo: 'What a wonderful book-club this seems to be! I enjoyed listening to it (even if i didnt understand half the things spoken about, haha)'


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