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Vallator
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re: Fan created Similirian Trailer

http://moviepilot.com/#stories/892320-badass-fan-made-trailer-for-the-silmarillion?stamp=39854&subscribe_to=810218&utm_campaign=badass-fan-made-trailer-for-the-silmarillion&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=fb-channel-fantasy-channel

Check it out, it is cool. But I honestly really hope and wish they would make this into a movie as well...

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re: Fan created Similirian Trailer

The Silmarillion is quite possibly my favorite of Tolkien's Middle Earth series; however, unlike Lord of the Rings or the Hobbit, it's not one story, but a collection of many stories that tells the history of Middle earth, beginning at...well, the beginning, and going all the way up to the end of the Second Age. I simply can't see how it would be possible to make even a trilogy, much less a single film, that could cover all of it. Even if someone narrowed it down to the story of Feanor and his sons and their oath to retrieve the Silmarils, they'd still have to cut out at least 90% of the rest of the book in order to fit it into a movie.

However, if someone could pick a story - Beren and Luthien, Turin Turambar, etc - I think that would be quite possible. Oh, Mr. Jackson...

~Liff


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re: Perhaps a TV series then

Perhaps they could do it, in the form of a tv series. Then it might be possible for them to touch base on the many story lines.
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re: Fan created Similirian Trailer

A high-budget TV mini-series (like Rome or Shogun) would be awesome! Great idea!


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re: Fan created Similirian Trailer

I'm sorry, but I burst out laughing when they started flashing names on the screen:

"Turin! Hurin! Beren! Luthien! AND ALL THE REST!!!"

...yeah. I won't say it's impossible to make this into a mini-series or a film, but really, some material just doesn't translate well. And the Silmarillion is so far from a traditional narrative. Even Christopher Tolkien has said that, looking back, he doesn't think it was really right for him to try and "fill in the blanks" the way he did.

Certain kinds of art, I think, are suited to certain mediums. Not all books translate well into film, and not all film translates well into a book--because film is, above all, a visual art-form. Literature is not--it is an idea art-form that happens to include descriptions of visuals. There's nothing wrong, I think, with works that don't make the transition very well. It is not a reflection on the work or the people doing the translating.

All this is my very long-winded way of saying, lord, I hope they never even try to touch the Silmarillion (and frankly, I do think that would be deeply unlikely).


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re: Fan created Similirian Trailer

allow me to respectfully present a counter argument, Cennwyn.

While I agree that the Silmarillion AS IS doesn't really translate well into film, film and literature are two very compatible mediums, each one well suited to addressing storytelling concerns that the other one sometimes struggles with.

Using Feanor and his sons as an example, the Silmarillion primarily covers their activities as a series of historical moments - Feanor did this, then he did this, then he said this...etc, etc...It makes for an excellent historical background, but lacks a degree of dramatic immediacy, which is probably one reason why the Silmarillion can be such a difficult read for so many people.

Now, honestly, I think what would be fun to do, albeit difficult, and possibly dangerous to the source material, is to expand upon the historical event-based storytelling, with some very dramatic, immediate character based perspective material. Re-write the Feanor story from the perspective of Feanor, his wife, his sons, the valar, etc, etc...expanding upon the actions that are chronicled in the Silmarillion, by writing a dramatic story AROUND those actions - new dialogue created, faces to see, musical background to enhance/express mood, new visuals to ooh and aaah at as we get to see the early days of Middle Earth, and so on...

now, this new story could be literary, and could also be very well served in film media. And I see no reason why TV or movie would *inherently* be an inadequate vessel for this above kind of story. On the other hand, for such a thing to work, print or visual, would require expanding upon Tolkien's story, and runs the risk of adding too much, or adding contradictory or irrelevant material.. What if we have some ambitious writer who wants to make Feanor's rebellion against the will of the Valar as a metaphor for, I dunno, liberalism vs conservativism, or something equally stupid.

So yes, there would be dangers inherent in trying to create expanded material using different authorial sources - but, done well, could bring a whole new level of life to character's that we've *heard* of, but only barely really *experienced*, if you ask me.


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re: Fan created Similirian Trailer

While you make some good points, Andeon, I'm gonna have to side with Cenn on this one. The Silmarillion is simply not enough of a linear narrative arc - one that is suited for movie/television production, and to see someone take the stories and write up a whole-cloth concept "based on the book" would have absolutely zero interest for me. Christopher Tolkien had enough of a hard time gathering and organizing nearly 60 years of his father's notes - many of which were incomplete or even conflicting with each other - into the book we know today, and I feel that any step beyond that would simply dilute it further.

That said, there *are* individual stories in the Silmarillion that I believe could be turned into a movie script. But to try and take on the work as a whole would, in my opinion, do it no justice.

My 2cp.

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re: Fan created Similirian Trailer

Andeon wrote:

now, this new story could be literary, and could also be very well served in film media. And I see no reason why TV or movie would *inherently* be an inadequate vessel for this above kind of story. On the other hand, for such a thing to work, print or visual, would require expanding upon Tolkien's story, and runs the risk of adding too much, or adding contradictory or irrelevant material.. What if we have some ambitious writer who wants to make Feanor's rebellion against the will of the Valar as a metaphor for, I dunno, liberalism vs conservativism, or something equally stupid.

So yes, there would be dangers inherent in trying to create expanded material using different authorial sources - but, done well, could bring a whole new level of life to character's that we've *heard* of, but only barely really *experienced*, if you ask me.


Andeon, you've actually hit the nail on it's head: there would be dangers inherent in trying to expand upon the material. And I would have no interest seeing some author expand upon Tolkien's work, because there would simply be no way to ensure that they were being true to Tolkien's intent. I know I come off as a bit stiff and stodgy on this, but really, I am not interested in another author or screenwriter tampering with the existing material--which, in my opinion, is perfect as-is and needs no translation, expansion, or revisiting.

This is, of course, merely a personal opinion. And opinions are like...um...armpits. everybody has them :)


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re: Fan created Similirian Trailer

see, while I understand the hesitation many people feel about approaching Tolkein's material and expanding upon it, and I'm the first to admit the potential dangers of it, I'm also quite well aware of when current authors have tackled other author's works and made glorious material out of them, and it's such a joy to see that my favorite stories and worlds don't *have* to be limited to the lifespan of the original author.

One of my favorite examples is Conan - the original stories by Robert E. Howard range from competently entertaining to truly unique and crafty in their own right - but since the character was created, Conan has been passed to at least a half-dozen other writers (I have a rather prodigious collection myself), and the content those other authors have created have ranged from sub-par, to mildly entertaining but clearly derivative, to truly stupendous (Robert Jordan specifically has done several and managed to create full-length novels with a very rich and beautifully realized Conan and Hyboria).

I'm also very fond of Timothy Zahn's "Heir to the Empire" series, which was a stark reminder that people other than George Lucas could manage to continue the adventures of my favorite characters in my favorite worlds, while giving them new and exciting things to do, WITHOUT sacrificing the things that made me love them in the first place.

Pity George couldn't manage to do the same thing...

which brings us to another point - As much as we all appreciate the efforts of J.R.R. Tolkien, there's really no guarantee, that if he were alive today and wanted to continue his own stories, that they would turn out as well, and be as personally engaging to us today, as they were originally...which is why I'm more than willing to entertain the possibility that someone, some gifted writer that approached the world of Middle Earth with the respect due to it's craft and it's meaning to those of us that love it, could create new material, give us new perspectives, on characters we only have notes and chronicles of, and give us living, breathing characters to realize in a whole new way.

And that is something I would very much like to see...


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re: Fan created Similirian Trailer

Wow pretty cool, thanks for sharing. My feeling on a Silmarillion movie as awesome as it would be is that it's just too large and most likely over the casual fan's head to make into a blockbuster movie. I think what might make more sense is to take individual stories from the book and turn those into movies or as others have suggested possibly turn it into a mini series.

Rather than a Silmarillion movie, I think I would rather see someone else take a stab at adapting LOTR/The Hobbit. As much as I enjoyed the Peter Jackson movies I would love to see versions that were more faithful to the books.


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re: Fan created Similirian Trailer

I was actually quite proud of "The Fellowship of the Ring", but after that, yeah, Two Towers and Return of the King started deviate more and more wildly away from the things I was hoping to see - still, I think overall, Jackson did a fantastic job of making the movies watchable and entertaining, while sticking to *most* of the dramatic spirit

"The Hobbit" I'm a little more upset about - partly because "The Hobbit" is still my favorite Tolkien tale, and partly because Jackson is hiding his...personalization...less well, this time around. "The Hobbit" is taking some striking liberties with the original material, and I'm not entirely convinced the liberties are adding anything particularly valuable (although I'll have to admit that the theme of Dwarven homelessness is really quite a nice addition)

I'm still willing to see where the next two movies go, but I'll have to admit, so far, I'm *less* impressed with Jackson's stab at "The Hobbit".


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re: Fan created Similirian Trailer

What about the other way around with a different book? This came through my Twitter stream the other day:

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/03/23/70153-peter-jackson-planning-novelisation-of-the-hobbit/



"Novelisation" ? Really? The Hobbit V2.0 ?
When ego loses it's bounds the worst things happen.


EDIT: This is the best comment on that I found so far: http://www.thecivilian.co.nz/peter-jackson-planning-novelization-of-the-hobbit/

Edit 2: Whoa, I totally took this seriously but it's just satire. Thank Eru.


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re: Fan created Similirian Trailer

Hmm, I have the same reservations about The Silmarillion as I did about the film version of the LOTR. On the one hand, I was initially irate about any changes to the lore, such as Arwen's expanded role or the deletion of OldForest/BarrowDowns/Bombadil. But now, after dozens of viewings, I can see those changes for having been reasonable additions/compromises in another artist's conception of Tolkien's work; as in, the core of the story remained intact and was successfully communicated. It is just like anyone now re-interpreting Shakespeare -- it becomes their version of it, no longer the original author's specific/exact work. All you can ask is that they try to be true to the intent/mood/message (which can be botched, whether the original author is dead or still living!).

Similarly, I would much rather see someone do some version of some of the Silmarillion material, than no one do any version of it at all. Unless they totally botch it, in which case I reserve the right to complain. But I think the world is far better off having had a slightly-imperfect rendition of LOTR by Jackson than no version at all. Just wait 20 years (or maybe only 5-10?), maybe someone will do an even better version.


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re: Fan created Similirian Trailer

actually, to be fair, there *is* a better version :) I still really like that wacky old live-action/animated version of the Lord of the Rings - it's horribly truncated (at only an hour and a half, makes it all the way to the battle of helm's deep), but the individual segments of the story that it *does* manage to cover still seem to capture the literature of LOTR better than the movies did, at least for me (although make no mistake, the movie really captured the visuals, the actor portrayals were really quite nice, and the music was epic)

as for "The Hobbit", given Jackson's recent and violent liberties with the written material, I still have to rank the Rankin-Bass Hobbit as a superior film version of the movie (plus, it's got Leonard Nimoy!!)


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re: Fan created Similirian Trailer

Andeon wrote:
I still have to rank the Rankin-Bass Hobbit as a superior film version of the movie (plus, it's got Leonard Nimoy!!)


I am in total agreement there :)

I did like Jackson's version, though, because I've started to recognize that he isn't just taking liberties or even making artistic choices: he is a businessman who is trying to sell movies. Taken in that light, Jackson's version of The Hobbit is pretty darn good.


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