RiffloRiffloMember
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re: Interesting article re:Tom Bombadil
by Rifflo on 2012/05/30 1:55 pm
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re: Interesting article re:Tom Bombadil
by Kiralynn of Rohan on 2012/05/30 2:19 pm
Personally, I think Tom Bombadil is an imaginary character that Tolkien loved, so he included him in the Lord of the Rings, even though he doesn't really fit. He is so alien that he doesn't have a comprehensible sense of morality, which really stands out in a book that is all about good versus evil.
Tom is so removed from and immune to events of Middle Earth that I always picture him as a 4th-wall breaking character. Yup, here's Tolkien's beloved Tom, visiting Middle Earth from another book, giving hints of the final chapters, and saving the horses so that the children reading the book don't worry about them!
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ByrchaLEADER
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re: Interesting article re:Tom Bombadil
by Byrcha on 2012/05/30 3:23 pm
Interesting. I was fascinated by Bombadil when I first read the books (and, yes, annoyed when he was left out of the movies, though I am fine with it now). I think I classified him somewhere among the Maiar, maybe the Valar, maybe even Illuvatar himself, and left it at that.
Now, in reading the comments in the link above, I found this: http://www.cas.unt.edu/~hargrove/bombadil.html. This fits better to my thinking than the Bombadil-as-a-molevalence-waiting-its-chance theory does, and it also fits for Goldberry.
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KaerriKaerriOfficer
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re: Interesting article re:Tom Bombadil
by Kaerri on 2012/05/30 7:31 pm
Two very interesting articles! Though I must say I like Byrcha's better. :) Tom has always been a favorite of mine.
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AnthemisiAnthemisiMember
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re: Interesting article re:Tom Bombadil
by Anthemisi on 2012/05/31 4:55 am
Tom Bombadil, is my hero since I read the books. I understand him as; "Tom Bombadil is a character like Puck or Pan, a nature god in diminished form, half humorous, half divine" described in second article.
Tom Bombadil really doesn't look or act like a Vala or a Maia, appearing and behaving instead more like an overgrown Hobbit, statement is couse of my Tom Bombadil mania.
This topic is now forcing me to create Tom Bombadil-like man figure, in game!
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FloradineOfficer
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re: Interesting article re:Tom Bombadil
by Floradine on 2012/06/01 3:40 am
Oh yeah... that Loose Connections article came through my Twitter stream yesterday.
Why do people always walk a gazillion miles to try to give sense to their over- and misinterpretations?
This article is so full of narcissistic excitement about the writers own "discoveries" that it's not funny anymore.
Why can't a mistery be and remain just that: A mistery?
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GaldremMember
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re: Interesting article re:Tom Bombadil
by Galdrem on 2012/06/01 4:59 am
People can theorize, of course, and that can be fun, but ultimately Floradine is right. Tolkien said that Bombadil was meant to be an enigma, and if there is no answer in Tolkien's writing, there is no answer. As Goldberry said, "He is."
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re: Interesting article re:Tom Bombadil
by Gaerthand on 2012/06/01 8:20 am
Thanks for posting that link Floradine! It shows a different approach to this matter. I like how it focuses on observation - Tom's behaviour, attitude of others towards him and so on - rather than on analysis. Definitely enjoyed listening to that. It's not to say that I didn't enjoy reading the other two articles. I found the first one a bit cheeky, but in an acceptable and funny way. The second one, well... an in-depth analysis backed up by quotes, what's not to like here.
And most importantly - none of them gives a definite answer as to who Tom really is. Regardless of how deep the authors delve, the mystery remains unsolved. Which only adds flavour to it!
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FloradineOfficer
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re: Interesting article re:Tom Bombadil
by Floradine on 2012/06/01 12:51 pm
Gaerthand wrote: | And most importantly - none of them gives a definite answer as to who Tom really is. Regardless of how deep the authors delve, the mystery remains unsolved. Which only adds flavour to it! |
Heh, I bet the writer of the first article mentioned would *love* to solve the mystery but then again the "problem" with all this is: A mystery can't be solved. If it could be it was not a mystery but a riddle. Sometimes riddles can be so difficult so solve that they appear as a mystery to someone. Father Roderick does an awesome job in explaining the difference between a riddle and a mystery. But Tolkien was not after a difficult riddle. His intentions were to put a real mystery into his story and he succeeded masterfully. He knew he was the only source who could tell the truth behind Tom Bombadil. But he decided to *not* develop more background about him. He went so far that even to him Tom remained a mystery. This is pure awesomeness in my opinion. He didn't even allow himself to speculate. And by doing so he secured the mystery to be and remain a real mystery. All the others who wrote and talked about Tom just *can't* give any definitive answer. This is a *very different thing* than deciding to not tell you something. They didn't decide. They just can't do it. They can talk about him forever... but the mystery remains. Tolkien knew exactly what he was doing with Tom Bombadil. It was just something different than such people like the writer of the first article think. And that's their first misunderstanding of the matter. I bet Tolkien giggles about this little trick wherever he is now.
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CennwynCennwynMember
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re: Re: Interesting article re:Tom Bombadil
by Cennwyn on 2012/06/01 1:14 pm
Galdrem wrote: | People can theorize, of course, and that can be fun, but ultimately Floradine is right. Tolkien said that Bombadil was meant to be an enigma, and if there is no answer in Tolkien's writing, there is no answer. As Goldberry said, "He is." |
Which is an interesting and very telling quote, as "I am" is the translation of one of the names of the judeo-christian god (if I remember correctly). I don't think that's what Tolkien MEANT to imply, but any number of interpretations outside the author's intention are possible.
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AndeonOfficer
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re: Interesting article re:Tom Bombadil
by Andeon on 2012/06/01 3:35 pm
re: floradine and the "loose connections" article - I'm pretty sure you may have overestimated the author's enthusiasm for his own conclusions. I could be wrong, but I think he was *deliberately* postulating a rather absurd, but surprisingly entertaining, alternative interpretation of the evidence and inference about Tom Bombadil. I'm not sure he actually *believed* that conclusion, just that he found it entertaining that you could reasonably argue the case given the evidence in hand.
I, like many, found Tom Bombadil to be an intriguing, but ultimately distracting, character. I have to agree with many of the adaptations of LOTR, that, on the whole, he adds next to nothing to the overall progression of story, and given that his sequence would easily eat up a half-hour or more of screentime, agree that if anything is going to get cut from LOTR, the first thing to go ought to be Tom. But I've got a friend who's very much a huge Tom Bombadil fan - although, he is rather contrary by nature...but still, I don't disagree that Tom's...unique...position in the LOTR universe is very intriguing. It makes me want to ask questions, and more than that, it makes you question the nature of the Ring, and of the Wights, and of Tolkien's world as well...but for me, only a little bit. And in the end, I'm content to have the questions not answered...after all, if you need any evidence that some mysteries are best left unanswered, just go watch Highlander 2.
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re: Interesting article re:Tom Bombadil
I love old Tom, and I laughed myself hoarse over reading this dark take on a beautiful legend.
I, for one, lamented the fact that Tom Bombadil was cut from both film adaptations of Fellowship and I was overjoyed to see him in LOTRO. So much so that I would visit his house nearly every day for a weeks after I first discovered it.
Tom almost certainly symbolizes the last vanguard of childhood innocence. When one considers the fact that the stories of Middle Earth were originally bed-time tales for Christopher, it is easy to see how the complexity of the narrative grew as Christopher grew older. Tom Bombadil represents one of the oldest and therefore most child-like characters in Middle Earth, and it is no accident that he appears in Fellowship when he does.
For all its quasi-christian symbolism, LOTR is a classic dramatic dichotomy of innocence and experience. The shire obviously represents a state of innocence, and the flight from the shire is symbolic of a willful decision, when confronted by that which threatens all that is held dear, to depart from that state of innocence. Tom Bombadil lives in a dark and dreadful place on the borders of the Shire, but it is a place of primordial power, where the trees, though feral now, possess the quickening power of days gone by. The old forest is a place of true wilderness in contrast to the thoroughly civilized, albeit provincial, life of the Shire. The hobbits are frightened of this as children should be.
When they (and therefore the original audience, Christopher) found themselves in the darkest of peril almost as soon as they choose to forsake innocence, they are saved by a familiar figure of innocence who treads without fear among the snares of the wild world and wields god-like powers without any malice to those who would do harm. The fact that Tom is Oldest and Fatherless has led to much speculation about the religious symbolism of this character and, from a perspective of Sophia christology, it is clear that Tom has strong symbolic elements of the Sophia/Christ. (Sophia = Wisdom) (Just as Aragorn represents Christ The King and Frodo eventually comes to represent the personal, broken body of Jesus who bore the evils of this world for all.)
So, we have yet another Christ-figure standing guard on the border of darkness and innocence. But instead of saying, "Turn back and embrace innocence once more!", he prepares them for their task ahead even as he provides succor and hospitality, for he knows that these children cannot linger in innocence forever or they will be lost. They must go forth into the world, with all of its evils, and become wise.
I love this character and all of his adventures with all my heart and it saddens me that not only is he not more popular, but that so few seem to grasp the beautiful symbolism of it all.
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