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Kyrian
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re: Elder Scrolls online

hammino wrote:
Kyrian of Landroval wrote:
Have been trying to sign up for the past hour.. always goes to an error 404 page when I try to submit the application :/ Can't find anywhere to repeort this.


you must use firefox or chrome IE wont work

Aye, found that out. thanks.
Burrberry Farflight
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re: Elder Scrolls online

I totally agree with you Kiralynn. WoW is a dinosaur with out dated graphics and a weird learning curve for new players. Not to mention a publicly toxic community... some of my worst social and RP MMO experiences have been on WOW (I've tried it a few times since it came out because everyone told me it was so wonderful). I'm sure there are some great guilds and players because I hear about them so often, but I never met them.

Which is why I think an MMO coming out and saying it's going to be a WoW killer, is setting itself up for failure. If you're going to take something which is so perfectly formed for the RP/story loving player, and use WoW as your baseline of what a successful MMO is and what you want to beat, you're going to move away from the core that players like myself and probably you and the rest of us here really love because you're going have to be aiming for their core players who love PVP and combat.

Development time costs money, a LOT of money (in my field it's $125 an hour per developer, not sure what the rate is in gaming but it's got to be somewhat comparable). To see bankable return on that time, you're going to want to focus your developers on developing systems which will make you money. What games are players spending the most money on? Games with strong PVP & combat. Look at League of Legends, WoW, DOTA... big bank, big loyal playerbase. That's what you want. Other play systems within the game which cater to crafting, RP and story are ancillary's. If you get your PVP, PVE and combat right, the story can be nominal and you'll still pull in a paying player base.

So that's why I'm worried about Elder Scrolls... I'm hopeful considering their track record, but I'm also worried when I hear that they want to be a WoW killer. I'd rather hear that they're going to be true to the legacy of lore and world that they have built and open that up to online play, with exciting advancements in their combat systems, and building a robust system for PVP and PVE as well. Now that would have me drooling...

However I've still signed up for beta :) And I still wish Cicero was a romance option in Skyrim :P


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Molly Bayberry
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re: Elder Scrolls online

Pan-Liang wrote:
However I've still signed up for beta :) And I still wish Cicero was a romance option in Skyrim :P


I've signed up, too, but I'm trying to keep my expectations low, so I won't be disappointed. This strategy worked for me for Peter Jackson's "embellished" version of The Hobbit.

But Cicero as a romance option... really?! Of course, there's something to be said for a lover who makes you laugh, and will kill anyone you want him to. ;)


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Kira,

You have all the talking points on WoW. Personally I enjoyed that game up until fairly recent. What killed it for me are two things. First being the game community ACTIVELY discourages role playing, even on RP servers. Secondly there are way too many multiboxers in PvP battlegrounds.

On a positive note, Blizzard is very quick to fix game breaking bugs. There was a really nasty bug back last spring which caused a dailies quest to malfunction. Generally, Blizzard does fix bugs within several week while maintaining open communication with the online community. On the most part, Blizzard does a very good job of maintaining their product. Turbine could learn a few lessons from Blizzard regarding product support and marketing.

When speaking of raids and PvP, LOTRO and WoW has a very different approach. This is where we have the community to blame, no the software companies. Here are several key differences I have noticed:

World of Warcraft: The raiding community tends to be much more open. A player can seek out other players either in-game or out-of-game to find a raid group. Most raiders are more open to using social networking media, voice chat, hosts online guild resources, and many choices of top notch websites. Blizzard will certainly want to make new raid content and PvP support. If Blizzard fails, the online community which keeps the game going will turn on WoW with bad press.

Lord Of The Rings Online: Raiding tends to be in what many would consider a closed community. Getting your foot in the door may not happen. Most players tend to not use social network media with this game. The use of voice chat is somewhat rare. Online resources are not updated as often and can be limited. The community in LOTRO tends to stay in-game only. In the end, making a raid group would require having people you know on face to face bases. Turbine has very little incentive to do alot of programming for less than 5% of the player base. Releasing the instances late after expansion did not hurt LOTRO where as such action would be suicide for Blizzard.

What is the final outcome? Blizzard will prioritize on programming new high end raids and boss mechanics. Turbine will update and detail the game world more often and create new quests packs.


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Burrberry Farflight
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re: Elder Scrolls online

I like a challenge Molly lol


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Lindorieh
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re: Elder Scrolls online

Just saw the Elder Scrolls Online will be a subscription based model at $15 a month.


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re: Elder Scrolls online

I saw that too... WildStar is going the same route.


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Kiralynn
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re: Elder Scrolls online

Burrberry Farflight wrote:
Development time costs money, a LOT of money (in my field it's $125 an hour per developer, not sure what the rate is in gaming but it's got to be somewhat comparable). To see bankable return on that time, you're going to want to focus your developers on developing systems which will make you money.


In my experience, rank-and-file devs make closer to $65k, not $250k, with some "rock stars" making between $80k and $125k. Where are your programmers making $250k? I need to apply for a job over there. :)


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re: Elder Scrolls online

Kiralynn of Rohan wrote:
Burrberry Farflight wrote:
Development time costs money, a LOT of money (in my field it's $125 an hour per developer, not sure what the rate is in gaming but it's got to be somewhat comparable). To see bankable return on that time, you're going to want to focus your developers on developing systems which will make you money.


In my experience, rank-and-file devs make closer to $65k, not $250k, with some "rock stars" making between $80k and $125k. Where are your programmers making $250k? I need to apply for a job over there. :)


I *could* very easily have misread the above post, but I'm not sure he was talking JUST about developer salary. He said development *cost*, which I was assuming included material, training, supplies and equipment, building maintenance costs, etc, etc...

I'm vaguely tuned into the conversation here - just thought I'd see about clearing up what *might* have been a miscommunication

my own thoughts on Elder Scrolls Online - I dunno. I *want* it to be great, and I'm encouraged by the descriptions of what sounds like a "sandbox" mmo - which would be a relief, in that my current MMO experience always feels somewhat linear AND confusingly entangled, all at the same time. I would really relish an MMO design that's intended to be explored, and to discover (and RESOLVE) quests AS you discover them, then move on to the next one, and, there are elements of dev commentary for ESO that *sound* like this is going to be the sort of experience ESO will offer - although, as always, I may be misreading dev commentary just to make myself feel better...

but, as I've said numerous times about MMO's and LOTRO specifically, in the end, I'll only spend *some* time in ESO, and leave within a year, in all liklihood, unless the community is SPECTACULAR. This seems to be the only constant that can keep me really attached to an MMO - so, in the end, it's the kind of gamer that ESO attracts that will ultimately determine whether or not I stick with it, unless the solo action/game mechanics are SOOOO compellingly fun that I never want to leave, which isn't impossible, but is something so far I've *never* found in an MMO.

strangely, I find the choice to stick with a subscription model to be somewhat reassuring. It says something about the mindset of the producers and developers, at least to an extent, that they are committing to a not-entirely popular money-making model for the sake of the experience they want their players to have - of course, again, I could be reading far more into this than is really justified, just to make myself feel better, but, idealistically, it means that design of the game is focused around player experience, not just popular choices about highest money-making model

I know, that's a lot of optimism to be clinging too, but it's what I've got so far


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re: Elder Scrolls online

Did Bethesda say it was going to be a WoW killer, or did that come from fans or commentators? I don't recall seeing it in anything I've read from TESO site but I have seen a lot of commentary from others speculating on the possibility.

Everything I've seen them say was about keeping true to the solo games: making the game about exploration and not mindlessly following some string of quests, making it so you can be whatever you choose to be based on the skills you pick and the weapons and armor you use.

And to me, they seem to be appealing to their own player base, not those of other MMOs. I've seen a number of posts from loyal ES players who have never played an MMO.

Having said all that, I don't know if they will have the same caliber of player base Lotro does, which is what makes it special for most of us - mature players who aren't into stroking our egos by curtailing the enjoyment of other people.

And it certainly won't have music. How can you unwind after a battle without music and songs?

The same post where they announced going the subscription route, they also indicated that they had 3 million sign up for Beta. So better sleep with your lucky horse shoe, lucky rabbit's foot and lucky dwarf's beard if you really want in on it. heheh

:)


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Kiralynn
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Every time I think about trying some other MMO, something wonderful happens in LOTRO. It usually has nothing to do with the software or game design. The other day, I spent 20 minutes trying to get to the top of that jumping puzzle tower for the Hytbold quest. Despite watching a solution video, I just don't have the coordination to do it. Anyway, someone came along, ran to the top, and summoned me up to complete the quest. It wasn't a Bander or a friend, just a kind stranger. That's why I stay. Banders and other such genuinely good people. I'm not leaving LOTRO until you do. :)


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